What's up and welcome back to Talking Nutrition. I'm your host, Johan Vesters, and as you already know, one of my absolute favorite things to do is bringing my friends on the podcast, my peers, to dive into all things health, fitness mindset, and their personal stories. Today, we are joined by my friend Katy Margison. Katy is a nutrition and fitness coach for women, founder of Athena Nutrition, and on Instagram, you might know her as the Sober Weightlifter. And if not, make sure to follow her. I'll drop the link in the show notes for you. But Katy spent over 13 years working inside the American healthcare system before walking away to coach disease prevention instead. And that's only half of her story, because Katy also overcame both alcohol and cocaine addiction, and she's incredibly open about what that journey actually looked like. That little voice saying you can moderate it, also hitting rock bottom in December of 2023, and the decision on January 1st that changed everything. In this episode, we talk about why overcoming addiction is behavior change on hard mode, and what that teaches all of us about nutrition, fat loss, and becoming the person who actually follows through. We get into handling social pressure around alcohol, planning ahead for the chaos days, why maintenance can be harder than fat loss, and we even end up talking about birth control and advocating for yourself at the doctor's office. This was one of my favorite conversations so far on the podcast this year, so let's dive right in, and of course, make sure to drop us a quick rating and or review on Spotify, Apple, wherever you're listening, to help us grow the show and reach more people like yourself. Enjoy. How are you, Katy? I'm good. I'm great. I should be more lively. Sorry. You're good. You're good. You're actually one of the people who actually held me accountable with the podcast. You're like, you're going to put out weekly episodes. Yeah. Yeah, we are. Accountability is kind of my thing. For sure. That's you and me both. So I wanted to bring Katy on to talk about her journey, overcoming alcohol addiction. The other one, too. Could I mention the other one, too? Yeah. I'm an open book. Cool. Okay, cool. Yeah. So overcoming cocaine and alcohol addiction, how it plays into like behavior change mindset and really like how in multiple ways is very similar to like that behavior mindset when it comes to nutrition, fat loss and all those kind of things. Want to kind of like have you on to share your journey, how it plays into how you show up on the day-to-day now, how that maybe plays into you helping others, right, with their health and fitness and let's talk about an unpopular topic as well, which is alcohol, social settings and setting boundaries and stuff, which I will say is a big one for my clients, too. I told you this is well off air, like in Norway, where I live, alcohol is a big piece of the culture, you know what I mean? Yeah, it is up here, too. Like where I am in New York, upstate, rural, there's not much to do. So people drink. Fair enough. Fair enough. But let's actually start with you, right? So tell us a little bit about you. Who are you? What do you do? And we'll take it from there. Yeah, I always hate talking about myself, but so I'm current. My name's Katy. I'm a nutrition and fitness coach for women, primarily online, and I started Athena Nutrition not even two years ago. So it's very new in the grand scheme of the fitness and nutrition coaching space. But my career before coming into this space was in health care. I worked in health care for over 13 years in hospitals, health centers, and then most recently before I left in a nonprofit as a director of communications, partner engagement. And I felt like I was a cog in the wheel of chronic disease management. And I started to see the real impact that my coaching was having with real individuals. And here I am over here working with doctors, like trying them to get them to promote COVID shots so that they can get paid more by insurance companies. And I'm like, this is so misaligned from my own values as a person. I can't keep doing this. And I was involved in statewide Medicaid redesign projects. And every time we would just throw more funding at a problem, but never actually solve the problem. And I started solving problems in real time with people. And I'm like, I have to see this through. I really have to put all my eggs in this basket and leave health care. And I did. And I am very much prevention over disease management. And I think anybody in this space would agree with that. So built a career in health care, still am in health care in many ways, but in a way that feels very authentic to me. And with my own journey with nutrition in particular, like I could not solve that, honestly, until I got sober. And I know we're going to talk about the whole sobriety piece, but I was a yo-yo dieter for years. I always was very good at exercising. Like that was never an issue. I've been doing CrossFit and Olympic weightlifting for almost 15 years now. So like you, I could be hung over a shit and still get in the gym. No problem. But I would do paleo. I did keto. I did challenges. I did fat burning pills. I did debloating supplements, like you name it. I probably tried it at one point and would be successful. And then I would regress. Classic story that I often hear from my clients. So I understand that. I was treating the wrong variable though. And that's where the sobriety piece really comes into play. You brought up a bunch of good points there. First of all, like the preventative health care. You know, I'm not against doctors. I do see a lot of people in the functional space kind of shitting on doctors. Like we do need them. You know what I mean? Oh, absolutely. I say that all the time. But the way the system is set up, like, yeah, for sure there's a time and place. And when people are already sick, like obviously go see a doctor, you know? And I mean, you and me both, like actually a couple of episodes ago, I know you heard this, but like I talked about how I got shit on social media for talking about thyroid. And then I actually mentioned like some of my friends are called, you know, crackheads and all that, or methheads. That was actually you. But I'll joke aside, like you and me both, like we get shit on, you know, online sometimes and we talk about these kind of things. And it's like, whether it's about our appearance or, you know, methhead or, you know, the doctor or all these crazy things, everything in between. Like as much as that's the case, I think, yeah, we're not doctors, but we do know how to get people healthy and there's so much you can do and literally anyone can do it. You know what I mean? It's the behavior change that's difficult and the mindset piece related to that. But you can prevent disease in so many great ways that are actually doable. And I think that's where we do need to learn as a society a little bit more of like that ownership of like, yeah, we do need doctors, obviously. Do I think the medical field and just the whole, the way it's set up in many ways is wrong, like with the shots and those kind of things? Yeah, I do think so, right? I don't think we should prescribe to make profit, you know, like you just said, the shots and all that. Um, and there's just so much misinformation to, and almost like, even with labs, like why is it such a hard thing for people to get a full panel and truly get an understanding of how their internal health is doing so they can then take that and say, hey, I'm going to work to improve it. And there's no, there's no money to be made in that. Um, I worked in, I worked in big pharma and I left and I, cause I felt like I was selling my soul to the devil and I didn't want to be a part of that. And I, I see, I've seen this happen to myself and I see it happen to clients. And thankfully my clients have me, like your clients have you to kind of be the voice of reason for decisions that their doctors tell them they should make. Like a good example, like I was put on Wellbutrin years ago for depression and anxiety, hated it. Blood pressure started rising. My doctor wanted to put me on a blood pressure medication. And I'm like, we're not doing this. And I stopped, I just stopped cold Turkey, everything, which I'm also not saying that that's, do not follow me for medical advice, but that I see that happen with clients too. Well, they're, they're get put on a medication and then that medication has a side effect. And then the doctor tries to treat the side effect. And it's like, we're missing the entire point here. And at least, I mean, it sounds similar in Norway, but we're in a fee for service system here where doctors are seen based on how they're paid based on how many patients they can see. And I spent 10 years of my career trying to shift that to a value-based system. And I finally decided, you know what? This is probably not going to happen in my lifetime, but they don't talk about lifestyle. They don't talk about nutrition. They don't talk about fitness. I filled out that little form every time I went to the doctor's office of how many drinks do you have a week? And I lied every single time and said like, oh, I only have like one to three. And then when I started to be more honest about it, they didn't even bring it up. And I'm like, I'm sitting here saying I'm having like five to seven drinks a week. And that's a lie. It's more. And they don't even bring it up. So that's where society has not come around to the idea yet that coaches like us can play a role in being a part of the healthcare team. Part of it, not the only answer. Yeah. That's the future I would like to see. I even have it on our website. You know, like I believe that what you and me do is the missing piece in preventative healthcare in that you can go to your doctor, get the checkup and all that. And obviously there's a time and place for Western medicine. First of all, there's so much we can learn from Eastern medicine with herbals and stuff. Like, why do we completely write that off? You know? But the missing piece, I think, is the accountability, is the education. It's actually someone who does have the time for you more than 15 minutes, right? Because that needs to be said too. Like a lot of doctors are working, you know, way too much and they don't have more time unless they spend their free time, like trying to follow up with people and do more research. But like having someone on your team, aka a coach, functional coach, nutrition, whatever, who can, first of all, just be there with you on a journey, hold you accountable, who's made the mistakes because just like yourself, same thing for me with the fat burners and all the other things, the training was fun. But it's the food, the nutrition, the mindset, the behavior change. Like, that's the hard part. And in my opinion, I think we need someone on our journey to guide us. And I was actually going to ask you because our company is called The Odyssey because it stands for The Journey, right? It's Odyssey Coaching Systems because coaching is obviously right where we come in. The systems, we need to have the routines in place. A big character on The Odyssey is Athena. So I was going to ask you how you came out with that name. So it's not just my dog. That was part of it. But Athena is the goddess of practicality and wisdom. And I felt it was very fitting for the work that I was doing. I'm a very practical, like, it's not black and white, but I'm just going to tell it like it is. And I felt like that name made a lot of sense for what I wanted to build. And a symbolism of wisdom is owls. So my logo is an owl. And if you look closely, it's got, like, carrots and beets and, like, leaves in it. So it's all kind of interconnected. But it is about my dog a little bit, but the name has some symbolism to it. Greek mythology is very interesting to me. All of our, like, my other dog who's underneath me is Apollo. Our previous dog was Zeus. So there's symbolism in all of that. That's cool. That's cool. I think it's also, I mean, it's for sure the first time we got a dog on a podcast, too. So if anyone's watching this on YouTube, you can see Athena in the corner. But, no, that's cool. She doesn't do much. She's not a good ambassador of nutrition. A pretty good stick collector, though, right? That's Apollo. That's Apollo. She is roughly 10 or 11 years old. She's getting pretty old. She doesn't move around much anymore. This is what she does all day, so. Fair enough. Yeah. And retirement. I like that, too. No, but all joking aside, I think it's key to have someone on your team if you really want to grow. And that's, I mean, Katy and I are in the same mentorship, okay? So we have our mentor, Taylor. Shout out to Taylor. That's how we met. Shout out to Taylor. Taylor, I really think, because everyone's always talking about the hacks and the shortcuts and all this, I think that the only actual shortcut in life when it comes to these kind of things, whether it's business or, I don't know, mindset or really anything you're trying to improve, nutrition, health, is through guidance, mentorship, and having someone who's been there, done that, and they can actually guide you on that journey, you know? That's my opinion. I think that's actually the only way, to be honest with you. And hard work. And hard work, obviously. And that's, you know, the main thing we're going to talk about here, too, because at the end of the day, it's a decision. Like you said today in your stories, it's a decision. You've got to do the work. You've got to show up. And it's not going to necessarily be easy. So I personally think that it's really cool to see people like yourself overcoming something big, like, you know, being addicted to alcohol and drugs. And I've never gone through that myself. I have, you know, I've had multiple friends who drank way too much, who did too much drugs, and who also died because of it. I've not gone through that journey myself, luckily, of, you know, really dealing with alcoholism and all that. But I'm very curious to hear from you, like, what that was like, you know what I mean? So would you be open to kind of sharing a little bit about your journey and especially, like, the overcoming piece? Like, I'm very curious about it. Yeah. It creeps up on you. And it's interesting because my mom was a drug addict, and she has been clean for almost 40 years. So I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. And it wasn't a problem until I was, like, 33 years old. And that's not what you typically hear. You typically hear of people finding these things earlier in life. And, yeah, in college, did I dabble in a little bit of drug use here and there? Sure. But nothing to the extent of what I was doing several years ago. And alcohol was the main thing for me. That was always a struggle. I always felt like in the back of my mind, I'm somebody who is drinking more than everyone else around me. Like, no one else is, like, frustrated that the waitress hasn't come back yet with another drink. And I'm, like, crawling out of my skin over here. And I had two drinks before I even showed up. Like, I pre-gamed literally everything. Nephew's graduation, pre-game. Like, child's birthday party, we're drinking. Like, it was bad. And I tried to get sober in 2018. And I made it about three and a half months. And this is a very common thing that happens to people through this journey is there's a little voice that tells you you can moderate. And I believed it. And I thought, well, I'm going to try. I think I can moderate this. It's not a problem. And I did for a little while. And then COVID happened. And COVID happened. And I also had become single for the first time in about 10 years. And I never got that experience of, like, going out and being, like, a single person in my early 20s. I was always, like, tied down. So as things started to lift restriction-wise in the States, this was, like, late 2020, early 2021, I went through what you would lovingly call a little bit of a hoe phase. And it is what it is. Like, I'm not proud of it. It is what it is. But I started drinking more and more and engaging in a lot of risky behaviors through that time. And then the drinking just kind of compounded from there. But I always had a handle on it. I was still able to show up to work. I was still able to train five times a week. I trained at a national, I competed at a national level, Olympic weightlifting, through all of this. How? I don't even know. And because of that, I never thought there's anything wrong. But then 2023 happens. And that was the year that it just really snowballed. And it really was, part of it was, like, the people that I was around. And this is the tricky part of my story because it's not always mine to tell, right? So, like, I have to balance that carefully because my husband's involved and it gets, like, kind of messy. But I'll keep it focused on me in that the people I was doing it with, they were very good friends of mine. And we are, unfortunately, not really close with them that much anymore because proximity, right? If you're always around people doing drugs and then you stop doing that, what is there to really connect on? So it started as, like, oh, like, once a month we'll do it. Then it became every other week. And then it became every Saturday. And then it became, like, every Friday, Saturday. And then we started doing it on Wednesdays because I didn't train on Thursday morning. So, like, I could get away with a couple hours of sleep. And then it turned into, like, it's Thursday morning. I have an 8 o'clock call. And I'm camera off, like, dying on the couch because I haven't gone to bed yet. And I could see the pattern clear as day. Like, if I keep doing this, in six months I might not be alive. I was driving drunk. I was drinking every single day. Like, we're talking, like, bottle or two of wine was, like, a minimum. I was doing cocaine four, five times a week sometimes. And then I stopped testing it because I was trying to be smart about it. Like, I carry Narcan with me. I'm equipped. And then I just stopped giving a fuck. It was like I didn't care about my own life. And that got really scary. And through that, I started to get extremely depressed and anxious. But I would hide it really well because at least by the time the weekend came around, I was like, every weekend, I was like, well, this is going to be fun. And then it started to not be fun anymore. But I couldn't stop it. And I wanted it so bad. And I knew that I was becoming addicted, if not already there, because it became all I could think about. And every weekend, I would look at my husband and be like, we shouldn't do this. We shouldn't do this this weekend. And then we would both give each other that look on Friday and call our dealer and repeat the fucking process. And it finally got to a point where I was suicidal. And I didn't want to be here anymore. And I woke up. Well, I say this because I never really went to bed that day. And I was laying there. It was December 15th, 2023. And I was laying in bed at like 7 a.m. Like, oh, my God, I can't do this. This is so bad. And I was like, I have to stop. And this is the interesting thing is I'm somebody that like when I make a decision, I'm very firm in it. But for whatever reason, I was like January 1st is what I'm going to stop two weeks from now. And I just kept doing what I was doing for two more weeks. So I still don't know like why I did it that way. But it felt like a clean slate. I felt like January 1st, I'm just going to stop drinking and doing coke and we're going to see what happens. I never set out like I'm going to be sober forever. And I still don't feel that way. At least with cocaine, I do like I genuinely do not ever want to touch that because I know the second I do, it's all over. But I don't know 20 years from now if I could potentially enjoy a glass of wine on a trip. I don't know. So I take it one day at a time. And I just that I technically January 1st was my last drink in my last line of coke at about six o'clock in the morning. And then we went home and that was that. And I have not touched either since and I still am kind of shocked sometimes when I say that out loud, knowing how much I was over consuming those things that I don't do it anymore. But it is hands down the best decision I've ever made in my entire life. I would not have the business that I have now. I don't even think this business would exist, to be honest, because I started sharing my sobriety journey and people that I knew started reaching out because I was also sharing my weight loss journey at the same time because I got kind of overweight there for a little bit. And they were like, oh, do you coach people? Because I was a CrossFit coach for many years. So people knew me kind of in a coaching capacity. And I was like, oh, I've never really coached people with nutrition. So, I mean, we could talk about it. And that's where Athena Nutrition was born, was a husband and wife couple who came to my house in July of 2024. And I literally had a notebook. I still have the notebook on when I used to do my check-ins. I would literally write everything down. I had no systems. And they were the reason I was able to start Athena Nutrition because they believed enough in me. And I will like always be forever indebted to them for believing in me for that. So that's kind of a quick and dirty of like how we got here. I was wondering already like what got you into that nutrition side of things. And I mean, without the addiction stuff, like it was for me also from CrossFit coaching into nutrition and seeing that people need that help. But I think having that experience yourself, I mean, obviously overcoming addiction is like like you even said when we were talking off air, like that's the most difficult form of behavior change because there's like a physical addiction piece to it. You know what I mean? And then did you notice like a lot of like withdrawal symptoms, those kind of things or anything in like your mood? Or were you just so set on that goal of like, I'm doing this now, like fuck whatever the feelings I get, like I'm just going to do this. Yeah. You know, I've been asked this question a lot and nobody's actually ever said that. Like you were so set. That's I was like, there was no turning back. I remember it was, I think, January 7th or 8th. So not even a week sober. And I went, it was a Sunday morning and I was like, I'm going to go out for a walk. And I remember walking up the road and there's like a little brook up by my house. And like the way the sun was shining through, I started bawling my eyes out. I was like, I haven't seen a Sunday morning like this sober. And I can't even remember how long, like how amazing is this, that this is what I've been missing out on this whole time. And like, it seems so simple and kind of like silly and boring, but I was like immense gratitude for the fact that like, I can do this now every day if I want to and feel this way and not the way that I was feeling. And I just held on to that every single day, every single day, like just one day at a time. I still treat it that way because while I don't really think about alcohol anymore, that there's really like, I could go to a bar and just be completely fine. Cocaine's different. I think about cocaine probably every single day of my life. And it's frustrating because I won't do it, but it's that voice is always there of like, remember how free you were? Remember how different you used to act? Remember how happy it made you? It's that voice that's still very much like inner monologue that I deal with. Like that little devil on your shoulder, you know? That's interesting though. So it's, it's really like thinking about like how good it was kind of. And it wasn't even good. It was, it was temporary. Right. But yeah. Yeah. I was just, it, it, this is where the uncomfortable work in sobriety comes in is that those kinds of substances are covering up something else. They're a mask for something else. They're, they were covering up the fact that I was incredibly stressed or that I felt awkward or that I, I was struggling in my marriage or that, you know, I felt like I couldn't make friends and I didn't know how to be myself. That took all that away. As soon as I started doing those things, I became more extroverted and people wanted to be around me. And you take all that away and you're left like completely raw and numb and you just have to sit with it. And that's really, really hard to do. And that's why sometimes like, I feel like it's a superpower that now like I can sit in the discomfort and lean into it. Unlike most people. And that, that's really hard to do when you have nothing else to lean on. And I equate that a lot to like food addiction does the same thing for people. And I would argue that food addiction is harder because I can cut out alcohol and drugs and live. You can't cut out food and live. You still have to eat. So it becomes a lot more nuanced with food addiction, but I'll stop there. I think to think a lot of times, and this even goes into like the, the injections and, you know, the weight loss medications and all these things like, or even like a gastric bypass and those kinds of things, you know, can it be a tool? Yeah. But like, you got to address the underlying things we got to address. That's the hard part, hardest part of this whole thing. We got to address like the, the, the stuff that we would much rather just, you know, not look at. Like we know this, this big thing is there, but you know what? It's like being on a step on a scale, you know, like, you know what, you know, it just makes me uncomfortable. I'm just not going to like, but we got to address that shit if we want to grow. I know multiple people who have done like a gastric bypass or, you know, and a lot of times for those people, it's a, it's a lot more about like the food addiction maybe, or like the thing that's driving that, right? Because oftentimes food is also like a comfort thing and it's something, something numbing almost. Those people tend to show addictive behaviors in other areas of life after that's done. So then a lot of people would, you know, or at least I've seen it, you know, in people close to me, um, then go into alcohol and now they're addicted to alcohol and rehab or all of a sudden they get into things like running, for example, then they overdo that. Like there's always like this addictive craving they need to kind of curb or something with some type of behavior, which can also be taken too far. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's what I do agree with you. It's, it's probably the hardest thing ever to not pay or not. How do you say this? To, to not let the emotions and the thoughts take over. Like, cause like you said, you still have the thoughts of the cocaine, but you just let it be like, it can be there. I'm still going to do me. And I think that's the harder part. Cause we do sometimes forget that we can have a thought, we can have a feeling, but we can also just acknowledge it and just not give into it. And I think that's a hard piece as well, which I personally also do struggle with sometimes when it comes to stress and those kinds of things and insecurities. And you know, you notice as well, like running your own business, isn't like all rainbows either. You know what I mean? The sunshine. So no. And the, the piece that I see this with my clients from time to time is significant life events are usually a trigger for like relapse or repeating that emotional eating cycle. And let's say a parent gets sick or your pet dies and it's like, Oh, I wasn't prepared for this level of discomfort. And that's usually when the, the behavior that is not ideal shows back up. And I, this happened to me like four months into my sobriety, our dog Zeus died and very like suddenly and unexpectedly. And we were obviously devastated. And some friends of ours were like, well, why don't we like go out and have some drinks? And I was, I remember sitting at a bar and I was like in war in my own head. Like, do I just get a drink? Like one of my friends was like, you know, you're justified in doing it because of what happened today. And I like, he's not wrong, but I was like, no, I can't, I can't do this. I can't. So I ordered a club soda. I sat with it for like 15 minutes and I was like, if I still feel this way in 15 minutes, maybe I'll get a drink. And I didn't do it. And I'm so glad that I didn't. Cause it showed me like one of the, one of the like more horrible things that can happen to you in your life. I'm equipped now to know how that feels and not succumb to the things that used to have control over me. And that is not an easy skill. And I'll be honest, not everybody's capable of doing that, at least not yet. But I try to work with my clients when they come to me and say like, Hey, I, I messed up, like, you know, something significant happened. I try to give them grace because, you know, let's say your, your father's in the hospital with something serious. I don't, has that happened to me? Yes. But I don't know what it's like to be you right now. So I want you to forgive yourself. And let's look at this as like feedback and a lesson learned on how in the future, when something really horrible happens, now you kind of are equipped and you know better not to repeat that cycle. Yeah, it's even kind of an exercise I like to do with clients sometimes when it's going well, you know, um, I even had, I talked about this with someone else this week. I had a client that she was on the roll. This is the person I helped lose the most weight. And for the first multiple months, I mean, she never really had like a terrible week. You know what I mean? Like the usual kind of, you know, uh, obstacles, challenges showed up, but like nothing like no big events or anything. But I did tell her early on, I'm like, you've been on a roll literally for months right now every single check-in you're positive, you're following advice, you're proactive. You ask questions. That's why, I mean, now she's lost. I think like it was like 130 or something pounds. And then I'm like, but, and I'm also not trying to be negative, but let's do an exercise where we imagine that tomorrow, next week, whatever, like you actually have a bad week where you actually feel unmotivated, where you do not feel like doing this and you don't feel like you're making progress, like how will you then show up and how will you still get, you know, things done? So while I was going well, we almost prepared a little bit ahead of time by visualizing what if it's not going well, how will I respond to those obstacles? And that's something I do think is smart to just even grab a piece of paper and getting super clear on what we want to achieve, but also writing out every single obstacle we expect. And it could also be a feeling or whatever to happen and then just ahead of time thinking like, what will I do in that scenario or how is, like, what's a potential way of kind of dealing with it? You know what I mean? Because when we're trying to figure out in the moment, that's usually where it's hard, right? I do something similar with my clients, but almost the opposite in that we build out like tier one, tier two, tier three days and like a tier one day is like ideal. What are the things that you do on a perfect day? You hit your 10,000 steps, you track all your food, yada, yada, tier two, that's probably more of like the normal days, maybe one or two things don't get the box checked. But I want you to think the most about the chaos days, tier three, like that's when your child's sick and you have to go to the hospital or you crash your car and you have to go to the hospital, like something really bad happened. What does still honoring yourself look like as you navigate that? It doesn't have to be perfect steps. It doesn't even have to be tracking your food. It could just be like, I'm going to make sure like I at least eat three meals and maybe try to get protein in one of them and drink some water. Like it's different for everybody, but we map that out together so that they are kind of prepared for those days and don't feel guilty or bad if things go off plan and they're not checking all the boxes that I want them to check. Yeah, that's where a lot of programs, in my opinion, almost feed into the all or nothing because there is only the plan, right? There's only the meal plan or like do this. And when they feel like they can't follow it, they feel like they're fucking up. But really, it's the program, the coach or that, you know, whoever they're working with or what they sign up with. That's not allowing for that. You know, the tier one, two, three, for example, or you know what I mean? I think we can do better in general also, like when it comes to like these coaching programs and actually helping people with the mindset and behavior change, which I'm very fascinated about because I think that's really the foundation, you know? Yeah. Because you and me are getting more into functional coaching as well, you know, doing things with hormones, gut health, thyroid. Still then, it's the mindset and behavior change. Like that's actually going to drive the changes, you know what I mean? You have to, you have to become a different person. And I think that's a hard statement for a lot of people to hear. But I had to become someone different. I am not the same person I was three years ago, not even close. I do things differently. I go through life differently. I have different friends now. In fact, I would say I probably don't have many friends because sobriety really kind of showed me like who was really in my corner and who wasn't. And it can, all of this, this whole journey, whether it's me or my clients, like you really do have to kind of fundamentally shift how you go through life or it's not going to stick. Because the way that you were going through life leading up to the point where you reached out to me or you decided today's the day something has to change, you can't keep operating that way or you're just going to get the same result. And that's the hard part. One of my things that I say all the time is the things that you have to do to lead a healthier life are simple in theory. The hard part is you have to do it every day. And that's where people struggle is doing it every day. Literally just before we, probably 10 minutes before we started this podcast, I was talking to someone in my DMs. That's exactly what they had a hard time with. She said like, you know, I'm currently diabetic. I want to make these changes. I know I should change, but I don't see myself as the person who is able to do the meal prepping, the meal planning, the tracking. But most importantly, doing that consistently, you know, for that long. Like, I don't feel like I am that person. She has no evidence. You have to create it. That's the thing. A hundred percent. You have to create it. I never saw myself as a sober person. I only created that by just putting in the reps day in and day out. You won't know until you do it. There's no evidence telling her that she can be somebody that preps her food and does all of these things. You have to prove it to yourself. And that's the hard part, maybe sometimes too, with coaching. I'm like reverse dieting, for example. Most of my clients do this for the first time with me. And they're always afraid to eat more, always afraid of more carbs, always care for that scale to bump up right away. When I gain weight, I'm like, just trust me. Trust me. Yeah. And that's the hard piece there. It's like, because it's like, it doesn't click. It's like, how will I not gain weight when I eat more? You know what I mean? And then I'll tell people the same thing every single time. I'm like, first I educate, explain, you know, metabolism, all those kind of things. Then I say, look, like as much as I can explain all of this and I have already, you understand just objectively like how this kind of works. There's nothing I can do or tell you like that will make you see it unless you walk through this. It's not until, not even next week, in two, three weeks. Once you've gone through an extended period of more calories and more and more carbs and more carbs and more carbs. Plus you then start to obviously feel a lot better too. Workout's improving. Your weight's not going up. That is when you start believing it, you know? And that's a massive like trust the process kind of, you know, kind of moment for people, which I also think where having a coach is key because we're going to hold you accountable. We're going to actually make sure food does go up because I mean, that's way harder than the weight loss part. If you think about it, you know what I mean? Yeah, maintenance is, I think, harder than a lot of people realize. And that like the weight, when I reflect back on my weight loss journey, I'm like, it actually wasn't that bad. I say that now it's kind of like that fading effect bias that we were talking about, right? But this morning, like, I guess I'm separated enough from it that it didn't feel that bad. But now that I have maintained my weight for well over a year, I argue that that can be harder because with more calories comes more wiggle room to make bad decisions. And it can be very easy for that voice in your head to say, well, like I still have 500 calories left, like I could go get ice cream. And there's nothing wrong with that, but you don't, it can be a slippery slope. And I talk with that about clients when we get to the point of going towards maintenance, if they've been working with me for at that point, nine to 12 months, it can be harder. And you have to really pay attention to that voice in your head, those cues, because it's going to tell you that you can do these old behaviors. And I don't want you falling into that trap. And, you know, with this whole journey, like you're not just changing what you do, but you're also changing who you are in every room that you already occupy. And there's discomfort with that, too, because people want to please others, especially women. That's more inherently, I think, a female trait. We don't want to let other people down. So changing your identity and changing how you show up and your lifestyle is going to make a lot of other people uncomfortable. And that is where I think some regression can happen as well. Yeah. Do you feel like that's a lot of times more of the, again, the people pleasing rather than it actually just because it's not like a lack of understanding, I feel like with people, right? It's really like that societal pressure and like the people around them. Maybe even also like the self-identity piece that we're still trying to like, you know, change over time. It's if you see yourself as the girl who always parties every single weekend and then, right, who always orders the drinks and all that, like it does become a difficult thing to also change that. Plus, and I see women and actually all my clients, but I coach mostly women. I see the same kind of thing maybe around family and, you know, those kinds of things and friends in general. It's almost like, I just want to focus on me. I want to do my goals and, you know, all that. But I also don't want this to become a burden for someone else. You know what I mean? Yeah. Whether it's like cooking different meals for your family. And I try to really strive to strike a balance with that. So they're not doing that. But it shows up in a lot of ways, mostly like social events is where it happens. And people may question what's on your plate. And if you refuse dessert or you refuse a drink or the second drink, well, come on, like you can't have one more, like your diet will be there tomorrow kind of language. And that more often, this was something, this was probably one of the harder lessons I learned early on in sobriety was I got some pushback from people that at that time were close to me around my sobriety. And I was starting to be more open about it. And that made people uncomfortable because people knew who I was hanging out with. So it kind of outed them too. And I did, I handle that the best I could probably not, but that's neither here nor there. That when people make comments about what you're doing, whether it's refusing a drink or choosing healthier foods, it's often a projection of their own insecurity with their choices or their lack of choices. What you're doing makes them uncomfortable because they probably know deep down they should be doing that too. And they're not, and you are. So there's friction with that. And it comes out in sometimes some nasty ways. And that's what I work on with clients with what, when it comes up, here's how I want you to approach like your sister giving you grief about not having mom's cheesecake. Here's how I want you to approach it. You don't owe anybody an explanation if you want to, you can, but here's some like statements that might be helpful. And then let them free and see how they navigate it and report back to me and did that work? And we kind of rinse and repeat. I think even just that, because I'm always going to bring it back to ownership and doing what's within your control. And I think at least you can bring it up and maybe explain, right? And then it really doesn't matter what other people think or say, but it's like, I think I was so much of a people pleaser in the past that I don't give a fuck right now. You know what I mean? Me neither. So, and that's kind of like, that's what I'm grateful for now. But like sometimes just saying because I want to, or because I don't want to, or like that's, that's all of the reason we actually don't even need a reason. We don't need an excuse. We can just say, Hey, this is my decision. Yes or no. I'm always going to teach moderation. I think there's a time and place for it and you can have, look, let's be honest with you, Katy, like a slice of cake is not ever going to be the problem. Like one, you know what I mean? Yeah. But it's, it's context. I think it's context. It's, it's seasonal and in all reality with the alcoholic, we can't have a whole bunch of a single week and expect to be healthy or lean, you know what I mean? Yeah. And you know, with thinking about my entire client base, like majority of them really don't drink that much. And I really try not to be on a soapbox about sobriety because I understand that my journey is my own and not everybody else is like that. I know most people can moderate. That's fine. But when I see clients initially like drinking two, three times a week, four times a week, they have a tougher time with their fat loss journey than those who don't. And I try to bring that up gently because like, I don't want to be the person. I don't want them to think like, you can't drink if you work with me. That's not the case. But I try to bring it up like, Hey, this is, this is a pattern I'm seeing. You're frustrated about the scale. I do think there's a connection here. How open are you to discussing like a different plan going into all these social events and mocktails and like other things that pull you away from tracking 500 plus calories of beer multiple times a week. I did it in MyFitnessPal. I would eat 1500 calories a day. That was like my calorie deficit. And I would pre-plan five, 600 calories of alcohol and then not eat the entire day knowing I was going to go to dinner and have multiple drinks and then I would be starving and then I would just completely blow it. And that was every single week. And it's like, yeah, so that even happens with, it even happens without alcohol. It's like, you're, you think it's a good idea to save calories and then you go in hungry and then it just backfires on you, you know? No, but I agree with you even kind of going back to what you were saying, like walking on a Sunday morning and getting that sunlight. It's like, I like early morning walks and it's funny even during the week here also, you know, like you, you walk through the city. I'm not too far from the city center and like city still waking up. Like there's not a lot of people just being able to do that is actually so great. You know, I don't know. I would do that on a Saturday and Sunday, you know, like a waking up fresh, which, which is something that people don't understand sometimes being nice. And that's where I think like things like gratitude journaling and stuff comes in. Actually appreciating those little things in life, or at least that was big for me. You know what I mean? But last year, maybe around, let's say May, June or something, literally within a month or so, a month and a half, I had probably about six clients make the decision themselves. Like, hey, I'm going to lower it. Like, I want to try just doing a lot less alcohol, you know? So my clients go through a 12-week course. We talk about alcohol. Back then at the time of the recording, I hadn't had any alcohol for 13 years, which for me, was really just a decision for my health. I lost a lot of weight too, just about 50, 60 pounds. I quit smoking that same year, 2012. I quit drinking because I was like, well, if I quit smoking, I'll just quit that too, because I was barely drinking already. So I also had to deal with the comments, you know what I mean? Like, oh, you're the boring person now. But like, I educate people and then I'm like, hey, cool. Like, we just want to make sure that what we do makes sense. We do practice moderation and we need to be realistic about the expectations. But every single one of those people who said, hey, I want to try 30 days, every single one decided, you know what? I'm going to go a little bit longer, see how I do. And then every single one said, I have less brain fog. I've noticed less anxiety. I have more, you know, just better energy. Waking up refreshed is amazing. And every single one of those people went back to drinking, but it became something not like, hey, I need to do this every single week with the guys or with the girls, but I'll have some if I want to. I'll have a glass with my wife because we have an anniversary coming or we're going away for the weekend. And it's a choice. Just how not drinking could be a choice. But for them, it was like, hey, you know what? No, I can have something and it's fine. And that's a way better and healthier and just just overall, just, you know, more realistic and rational way to handle alcohol, I think, you know, but they all also got those comments from people around them. It's it's so glamorized in society. It's honestly kind of gross, like it grosses me out now. And if you asked me three years ago, like I'd be like sober people are so lame. And now look at me. And it's funny. I used to even say in my early 20s, I'm like, I don't understand addiction. Like, just don't do it. And the universe sent me a big fat fuck you. So there's that. But the I think it sounds like it's a global thing if it's happening in Norway and the way it is here. It's certainly in like older generations, too, because we're similar in age. And I notice people like over 30, 35 tend to drink a lot more than younger generations. And there's a you see that on social media, too, like younger people are drinking less and less. And I'm encouraged to hear that. And I remember I did a TikTok a while back. I was like, I think we're going to look at alcohol in 20 years the way we look at cigarettes now. Like, really, like it's it's a gross habit, you know, putting like death skulls on like cigarette packs, like charging out the wazoo. And people got mad at me about that. Like, it's like they love to defend that habit. It's it's so interesting. Anytime I see someone post about like alcohol culture and sobriety, there's always people in the comments like, I don't have a problem with it. And like, if you feel like you have to defend it, that might be a sign that you you have a tumultuous relationship with alcohol. And that used to be me. I would always get very defensive about it. There were little things that always told me, like, you have a problem in the back of your head, like the dry January. Right. You said your clients went 30 days and then they decided to keep going. I tried to do a dry January in was it 2023? It might have been. And I made it to January 31st and we were going to Nashville and we were leaving that day. And I was like, airport, I can't not drink in an airport. So I stopped and I didn't even make it the whole month because I was like, I associated different things with consuming alcohol. And now I look back and I'm like, I have no, I just have no desire to engage in that behavior. It's not in alignment with who I am now. And does that push a lot of people away? Sure. But I'm so like good and secure with myself now that like nothing anybody could say to me would like phase me. Like you can call me an addict, a methhead, like say my sugar-free Red Bull is hypocritical. I don't care and I used to care so much about what people thought and now it's like so freeing because I'm like, I've already been through the worst things that I could go through. So I don't care what you have to say on the internet, Brad. Like it doesn't bother me. People are always going to have something to say, especially about the things they kind of know are confronting. You're holding up a mirror, you know what I mean? Yeah. I do agree. I think it's crazy because again, I tell my clients too, look, I'm not here to tell you or demonize anything, right? But alcohol is poison. Like that's how the body perceives it. Literally ethanol. It is actual poison. And it's not even to sound extreme. That's just objectively what it is. And your body's going to treat it as such and think, oh shit, like we got to get rid of this before all the other important things like your muscle, your fat loss, your hormones and all that will be then picked up again afterwards. But it's like, it's become such a cultural thing. And again, like I'll have a drink every now and then now, you know what I mean? I can't have more than two though. Like I'll feel like crap the next morning. But like it's just objectively not good for us in any capacity and even in any amount. And I think people kind of deep down know that it's not good for them, but it's uncomfortable and it's maybe also kind of like a numbing thing or you know what I mean? But I'll put it this way. Like if someone were to like invent alcohol now, let's say, right? Or come up with a drink with alcohol and introduce that now in 2026. Like let's imagine a world where alcohol didn't exist. Yes, you know, there's no way that will become legal, you know? No. Absolutely no way. It's interesting that we are so okay with alcohol, but something like psilocybin, which has well-documented, well-researched positive benefits for certain populations and conditions, that's a problem. But alcohol is okay and it's just so backwards and it really lends itself to the kind of the original thing we were talking about, about chronic disease management. Like our society, I think as a whole, is designed to keep us sick. And glamorizing alcohol, I think, falls into that because it's very easy to overuse and abuse and it often leads to more poor decisions. I would wager to say for the majority of my consumption journey, alcohol was like the gateway into other things. Near the end, I was like, I actually wasn't drinking as much. I was doing a lot more cocaine. But it would be like, I have a drink. Let's get a bag. Like, and for other people, that could be cigarettes. It could be marijuana. It could be something else. It is a gateway to a lot of other things. And I hope I'm right when I say that, you know, 20 years from now, we look at this very differently than we are now. And I think that tide is starting to shift. I do think so. I think it'll be similar with birth control also and a few other things. I was just talking about that this morning at the gym, the book, This Is Your Brain on Birth Control, is like one of my favorites. And it was what got me to stop taking it because I was on it for 16 years and nobody ever explained any of the things I learned in that book. And I was like, oh, I'm not doing this anymore. No freaking way. And some of the really interesting pieces of information in that book was like how it alters women's ability to choose a partner. And one of my girlfriends this morning at the gym was saying, she's like, when I get on birth control, I hate my husband. And when I'm off it, I love him. And I'm like, yeah, she's read the book. So like we were talking about that, but it's so true. Like it was like I showed up at 16, like I got some acne and heavy periods. Here you go. And then nobody ever questioned it for half of my life until I questioned it and I took myself off it. And that's where I'm always because like I get the messages and comments of you're not a doctor. While I do understand things better than certain doctors, but that's a different story. But true, I'm not a doctor. But doctors also have zero education in mindset and behavior change and do not understand and generally speaking, right? Or are not trained to find the root cause of why are your periods heavy? Why do you have acne and all that? And literally saying, hey, just get on the pill to balance your hormones. It's straight up false. Yeah. And like that's something that just blows my mind too. And it's like, realistically speaking, most general doctors actually shouldn't even be making those recommendations either. And just putting women on the pill. The increase in risk of, you know, depression, anxiety, those kind of things. The micronutrient deficiencies no one tells you about. You know, all that stuff. Like there's clear research backed like negative side effects to it. Why not just throw or like, why don't they just, instead of saying, hey, take this, this pill with synthetic hormones, which will not be the same in your body. Like instead of doing that, can we at least try to find like a better way to go about it and try to get people healthy instead of just saying, hey, you know, take this. But that could be a whole lot of rent and podcast episode. I want to be respectful of your time as well. Yeah, I have a client call at 10. I have a client call actually in one minute. I just messaged her. I'm like, I'm running a little behind. So we're good. No, you're good. We'll wrap it up as well. I think to kind of close the loop on that, it almost repeats itself when you get to be perimenopausal because you go to the doctor and say like, I'm experiencing these symptoms. And then doctors are like, well, here, let's get back on birth control. And I'm like, am I 16 again? Like what, why is this the only answer for women's health issues is to get put on a synthetic medication? There has to be a different way. And I think that's being talked about more and more now, thank God, because women deserve better. And I tell my clients all the time, I'm like, when you go to your doctor, this is what I want you to say. This is how I want you to advocate for yourself. And some of them even let me like join their telehealth meetings with their doctors. And I'm like, I try to just be quiet, but I'm there to be a voice of reason and just ask questions as well. Yeah. Yeah. To that last point, imagine there being a medication that would synthetically just tank a male's hormones, like zero testosterone. Like that wouldn't even be considered. It would never happen. But when it's about women's health, that is okay. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's anyway, that's a whole different rant. Um, like I said, you, you want to be, uh, on your coaching call in a sec and I want to be respectful of your time. Let's do this again. I think we have a lot more to talk about. Um, I know I'm like, I can keep going, but I have, I gotta be, I gotta be respectful of my clients time. I gotta call coming up as well. So, you know, so, uh, where can people find you and, uh, anything else you want to share with, uh, with the audience? Um, so I do have a website, athena-nutrition.com and on Instagram, I'm the sober weightlifter. Um, as much as Taylor has told me in the past, like we should change that name. I am dying on this hill. I will not change that name. I love it. I think it's great. Uh, cause I, you know, what's funny is, uh, at the FNMS event next month that we're going to, um, the sober bodybuilder guy is going to be there speaking. And I'm like, I gotta get a picture with him. Um, so yeah, no, that's where you can find me. Instagram, soberweightlifter or athena-nutrition.com. Perfect. We'll make sure to link that in the show notes. Thanks again, Katy. I'll, uh, I'll see you on, uh, on zoom probably later this week anyway. And, um, thanks for listening and we'll see you guys next week. Thanks for having me on. All right. Bye.