What's up and welcome back to the talk of nutrition podcast. Today we're joined by my Norwegian friend. One of my favorite Norwegians that I've met last year, PSA back. What's up, Pia? Hello, nice to be here and you are my favorite Hollander? Do you say that? Hollander? Almost. Let's call it Dutchman. Close enough though. I know what you mean. I'm really happy to be here. Now I'm obviously very happy that I met you. We've learned some exciting stuff together and I'm really excited about talking about it here. Even though English is not my main language, I am prepared to try as hard as I can. That's all that matters. You just got to do your best, you know? No, all joking aside, it'll most definitely be better than me trying to speak Norwegian, so I'll give you that. But wanted to do a little introduction, right? Because Pia and I got connected through a mutual friend and client, Lin. So shout out to Lin, first of all, for connecting us. And we're actually adding a really cool like nutrition component to Pia's app in the new year. So let's just like, you just gotta start there. Like, who are you? What do you do? How did you kind of get into fitness and stuff? Mm-hmm. I'll try to keep it short and sweet. My name is Pia Seberg and I'm a Norwegian. I'm 34 years old and I have a son, he's four years old, and I live together with my husband. Or we're not married, but yeah, you get the picture. And I started to train when I was about a teenager-ish. I was a bit overweight and noticed that I wanted to make a change. So that's what I did. I started running with my dad, actually. And one thing led to another. I did the spinning classes, group classes, trained too much, did low carb. Did too much of everything. Then I did my PT education and learned a bit more about how I can solve training and nutrition in a better way. And I also did a bachelor's degree in journalism. So my goal at the whole time was to... combined journalism and training in some way. And that I did in a Norwegian magazine called Shape Up. But as I progressed as a journalist and also as a trainer, I noticed that I was very comfortable with the talking about training and stuff and writing about it as a person, not just as a journalist telling other people's stories. So I guess that's why I'm here now. I started after being a journalist, being just a trainer and a blogger. And when Corona came, I started doing digital training. And that's where the app came in that you're talking about. I have two different apps where I train people both home and at the gym. And now from 2024, I'm also offering some knowledge about nutrition thanks to you and your knowledge. That's cool. I think I like the whole like sharing your story part. You know what I mean? And I think that's, um, as a, like a fellow coach as well, like I think that's important, right? Not just like telling people like, Hey, this is the science or like, this is like, you know, what protein does. Like, it's not like, let's share the stories. Um, and let's also be open about it, you know, like, and that's why I think it's cool that you're here because I think sometimes, right, not all the time, but sometimes when people can get this idea, that coaches, right, us, like we have our shit together like all the time, that's not the case, you know? And sharing like the stories and sharing the journey and you of course, like now also talking about your muscle gain phase and stuff. I think that's so important because it also shows people like, hey, we're also like doing the thing ourselves. We're like walking the walk, you know? But we also hit certain setbacks and whatever it is. Yeah, and that was actually the reason why I reached out to Johan. I had a client that had really good experiences with you, helping her both lose and gain weight in some way. And I heard your podcast and she really resonates with me and you did also. And I had just done a fat loss phase on my own and I was happy with that. But I felt that I needed to do something else. And for me, that's... I don't know, it was scary to eat more food and sort of like set myself up for weight gain. So I saw that as an opportunity to do that, but also learn more as I have a goal of learning more about nutrition in general. And I'm sort of like looking for not the perfect way to help people with nutrition, but the best way, the way I think is the best. And to learn more about that I also had to put myself in sort of like a client situation. So with you I got everything, I got the gaining and I got the like experience of being a client. Love that. I think that's so key too. Which is why I've had coaches over the years and they have coaches and they probably have coaches. It's like, we all need that accountability. We can all do with a bit of like objective, like, you know, person like on our side, basically. And it's just good. Like, again, like it's also good, just good to be the client in quotes, like in this scenario and also see how other people do it. You know what I mean? And we can definitely learn from each other as coaches, which is really huge, I think. That's one of the... the biggest things for me, like has been over the years, at least of like learning. Sure. We do courses and those kinds of things, but there's something like to that, like being coached, you know, I think it's huge. Um, so you mentioned, right? So you tried like low carbon stuff in the past. Um, you did a successful weight loss, of course, you know, before we started. I think a big one for a lot of people in the beginning, especially it's like figuring out, okay, what should we be eating? and like how much should we be eating? I think you had the like what to eat already kind of covered, right? But it was really more like the amounts. The amount, yes, and when you do like cutting, maybe especially on your own, you get used to like this amount of food and you go down, not like crazy down, but you have to go down a bit, like to lose fat, of course. And you get like lost in your own head of every like, bestemt på, like this is how much I need. So my biggest learning with you was... It could have been the counting part, but I was already doing that. I think that's a big one for people to learn as a learning how much energy there actually is in different foods. But in addition to that, it was definitely to see how much food I could and should eat without gaining weight. The gaining came, of course, but I was really surprised to see how much food and how much carbs I could eat without gaining. It was, yeah, and that was really, really cool. And I'm so glad that I experienced that. And that's why I also want to do this podcast with you and collab with you because I want to show maybe especially girls that train a lot. We are a lot of sporty girls here in Norway that you also need to eat well. You can have like cutting faces and eat less. There's nothing wrong with that, but you have to go back to maintenance and maybe dare to eat a bit more than you need. to be able to progress when, especially when you've maybe like trained for five, six years and you have a certain like training age. Yeah, I agree. I think you can get so much more out of training also by addressing your nutrition. And I think the whole carb thing, it actually kind of blows my mind that it's still like, I feel like it's less these days, you know what I mean? I feel like it's less, but it's still like, whether we even realize it or not, we still kind of sometimes are afraid of having it at least until we go through a phase like this. Yeah, I think it was because of the low carb wave that was in Norway, especially when I was young and when I like lost weight as a teenager. We learned that carbs is fuel and if you're not using that fuel, that's getting stored as fat like immediately. So especially when you just strength train, you don't need carbs because you're not using that energy. And that analogy, even though you know it's wrong, like you have the knowledge, it's just There's a lot of feelings and culture also attached to food. And that's why I think it's a bit harder to help people with nutrition compared to training, because it's cultural, it's friends, it's family, it's a lot of emotions. There's the information you get from the client, but there's also a lot of information that you're not getting. So yeah, it's a hard one. And carbs is definitely one of the myths that's a lot of... people, maybe especially girls. I don't know, we just fear carbs. Some of us do. Yeah, I do still see that a lot. It's a lot of fear of eating more, fear of eating carbs. And you're right, I think in the 90s there was a low carb kind of wave worldwide. In the 80s it was low fat, I guess. But fast forward to 2023, it's like you go online and everything is being demonized. It's like you see another shirtless influencer being like, you know, oats are bad for you. And then it's like fruit and then it's crazy. You know, so like no wonder people are confused. you have a guy going after spinach these days and have you seen that guy? I'm like, let's not give him attention, but I mean, it's hard to be a person these days just trying to eat well and move towards your goals, both because of the information, it's just, it's a flooded society we live in. But also because you have a life, friends, family, emotions. Like your diet gets affected by everything. And that's also something I noticed when I'm collaborating with you. That it's a collaboration that goes, it touches every part of my life in both good and not so good ways. Yeah, I think sometimes it's, that's likely the hardest part, you know, of like the nutrition, because that's, this is what people think. People think it's like the meal plan or like the recipes or whatever it is. And I'm not even against them per se, you know, there's a talent place for them. And I like having recipes as inspiration and all that. And I think that's a good thing. But sometimes people get this idea where it's like, I'm going to follow this and everything's going to be perfect. And it's going to be right. Like I will start to lose weight. But that's assuming that you stick to the plan, right? Which we also know there's a lot of shitty plans out there, but assuming you stick to a plan consistently that's made well for you. You will be getting results, but there's so much more outside of that. It's the diet culture. It's pressure on people. I feel like there's especially on women still a lot of pressure when it comes to dieting and just, you know, this. you're almost supposed to be lean or whatever, or at least you see the magazines and stuff. It's just weird ideas around nutrition, you know? Yeah, definitely. And it's also a fear. I don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but here in Norway I'm also afraid to affect people in a bad way by saying that I'm taking control over my diet because I'm like a normal weight Person that trains really don't have to do something. It's not about my health. It's about progressing and for a lot of people That's like unnecessary Why are you talking about like counting calories and gaining weight and these stuff? Can't you just be satisfied with who you are? And I've chosen to share my journey with you because I want people to learn the same as I do. But that's the first time also that I got like some negative feedback about sharing that part of it because here in Norway, we're very like, be chill about your nutrition, eat well. and that's all you have to do, period. And that's been hard for me because one part of me definitely agrees and I don't think that we have to like complicate nutrition more than we have to. But at the same time, we have to respect that there's a lot of people doing good training and they deserve to learn how to progress in their own way. Either that being losing fat, building muscles, staying where they are. I don't know, I just, I made a choice by sharing my journey, but there's definitely a lot of different opinions out there. Maybe you don't get them because you work with this. This is what you do, but for me and my followers, it was a bit, people are a bit delte meninger. Shared opinions. Yes. I have a lot to say about this. So I won't go on the rant, but so. There's a few things that we can touch on. Um, I do get it though. Like I also get this. Um, yeah. I mean, you're on YouTube as well. I don't know how it is in Norwegian, but like the comment section on YouTube is fucking brutal. That's like straight up, like only right. It's a lot of negativity, just people ranting and stuff. But I'm pretty quick to just ignore that. But no, you're right. But here's the thing, though. It almost turns into this thing that we're not allowed, we're supposed to be talking about because it's too personal, whatever it is. And I will touch on tracking in a sec. But why can't we just have a grownup conversation about these kinds of things? You know what I mean? Why can't we just talk about different methods? Hey, maybe it's a method that you've never tried. Okay, that's cool, right? That's cool, doesn't mean that is bad per se. But why can't we explore this? And why does it have to be that you, as someone who is fit, right? Who, by the way, had to go through her own weight loss journey to get to that point. You know what I mean? Same for me. Like I also had to go from overweight, losing 30 kilos, like learning this whole nutrition thing. I had no idea what it was doing. I was unhealthy, you know? Going from that to then the point where, like, we are in a good spot, which of course it changes our goals. Technically, we don't have to lose weight in order to improve our health. But why is that an issue then? Why can't we have a muscle gain goal, a fat loss goal, oh sorry, a fat loss goal, a performance goal? Maybe you wanna run a marathon, maybe you wanna, I don't know, hike the highest mountain in Norway, whatever it is. I feel like you set new goals as you go through your journey. And I don't think you're, people tend to think you'll get to that point, that end destination, and that's it. And hey, you know what? Maybe for some people, that is the case. But in my experience, and maybe it's similar to, you know, your girls in your app, it's like, you have your goal and you kind of set a new goal and then you get a little bit better here. And then, right, it's an evolving thing, I think. So why shouldn't we talk about it, you know? Yeah, I agree. I obviously landed on the same. I wanted to share the journey. I want the information to be out there and I want to show me as a person doing it. And so that when I say I love calorie counting or I hate calorie counting, that's like I know what I'm talking about because I've done the work myself. And I don't know, I don't think you can talk something down without like really trying it and doing it for yourself. So even though I understand where the critic is coming from, I think it's important that we're open about it and share what it takes and what it takes to get there. And also as a coach, always offering different strategies to reach a goal, of course. And that has been important for me when working with you. But also when I'm now using you to like share the knowledge about nutrition, that we're offering something else than just calorie counting, of course. But as well, I talk with so many people that have found it really liberating. And it's an important strategy to learn more about food, how it affects you. And in a lot of the cases for girls, it's about getting more freedom when it comes to food, in seeing how much you actually can eat, how... A pizza a Friday night doesn't like kill your results for the whole week. Maybe you needed those calories as um, you get information that's correct rather than just trusting your at times fucked up head and that's a good thing because There's so much as I mentioned before emotions in food and diet and that's why I think it could be a good tool but it's important also as a client and as a coach, as I think you've been really good at, to remind me that it's not something we're gonna do for life, it's something we're also gonna transition out of, and that's also like a big part of the process. Yeah. And that's something where, again, I do get it. You know what I mean? Because I had that experience myself back in 2012, right? You know, downloading my fitness bell, choosing like maximum weight loss, you know, which was like two kilos a week, whatever it was. And then, yeah, you know, I'm being put on way too low calories and just, you know, doing it wrong. Tracking calories burned and all those kind of things like I do get it. I've had that experience myself. But when it's used right, I think it can be really good. Tool, I think it can allow you to be more flexible. It allows you to actually find out how much you really need. And hey, once you've learned from it and you've reached your goal, step away from it. Let's practice that. And then you just use it when you want to, and you don't use it when you don't need to. And that should be enough. You know what I mean? Yeah, definitely. And also, I mean, it's part of the process of working, for example, with a coach, or if you're doing it on your own, you get to know yourself and how you go on with that specific strategy. And I think it's also important when you're working with nutrition to be really aware of how it affects your family. I've been talking a lot with my boyfriend about this, because it's a, as I said before, working with nutrition, it really like... Goes into your life. It's not just that one workout. It's every meal of the day. It's family time It's snacking on Fridays and that can be a bit hard for yourself in the family, but also like the rest of the family and So that's something you have to you have to like really involve them I feel and be aware of how you get affected by your own process and project because I can notice that I get really like up in my head to the point where my boyfriend said like relax, can you just be here with us and not in your phone when we're at a restaurant having dinner. And that's important to like, yes it's your journey, it's your project, but if you're a family person you have to take into consideration that it shouldn't take up your whole world. It easily can, but it shouldn't because that can be really like harmful long term. for sure. And I like also having that awareness, you know what I mean? Like actually paying attention to those things. And I think sometimes, I feel like this sometimes happens in the beginning where we get a little excited, you know, and we don't know yet, like, hey, we can also just kind of track later or skip that for the evening, or maybe take a quick photo of the meal and just do it later, you know? It's like, once we really get into it, a lot of times it's like, we might even like overdo it a little bit. But if we don't have the awareness, we pay attention to those kinds of things. We have conversations. We can kind of dial it back if we need to. And that's another thing too. I think, like you said, like with the nutrition stuff, it's like all day kind of thing. You know what I mean? And that means that all day, through like all different scenarios, we now have to figure out, okay, so like I'm supposed to be doing this with my nutrition, but how do I include Friday evening snacks? How do I include Christmas? How do I include this, that, whatever? And then it's like, oh shit, new scenario. You know what I mean? No one's gonna get that right away. And that's okay. And I feel this is gonna be very helpful for the people, even like starting their journey or even with the new year stuff, you know? It's like, like no, know that this is a process. You know what I mean? Like that you have to like proactively go through and like learn from. And I like, you know what? Cause I noticed this too with you. We started eating more. We said, hey, we can actually be flexible. I want you to be flexible, especially when you're super active, right? We can have like the 20%, let's call it, of fun stuff. But then, you know, one of your first check-ins, like after a couple of weeks, I was like, oh, I feel good. I feel like a loaded gun, you know, I have so much energy. That's what we kind of like work towards, you know, like actually getting you to a better spot. What kind of changes did you notice there? Like that mindset shift from like... now need to eat more etc. That was freedom coming from a place where I constantly controlled my calories. Not in like, of course, in a restrictive way, but it didn't feel like I was struggling to do it. It was just that was the project I had then. And of course, it was nice to go from that mindset to, okay, now I'm going to build. And I felt like I was in a place where that was the right thing to do for me. So it was super nice to focus on eating more. And in the beginning, it felt like... I didn't wonder how I could make it because I can eat a lot of food. But it just felt wrong all the way. So that's where it's nice to be like held in the hand and told that this is right. You can increase. And of course I saw that when I weighed myself. Weighing is also like something like there's a lot of shame here in Norway attached to weighing yourself. And I partially agree. At the same time it's information. You can see that, okay, although I'm eating 800 calories more, I'm not increasing in weight. Actually, I'm losing a bit. What's happening here? Also to learn from that is pretty powerful. And I also quite quickly noticed that I slept a lot better. I've had the struggle with not insomnia, but just being... Urolig. What's the word for urolig? Yeah, like restless, like can't fall asleep, like, yeah. waking up in the middle of the night kind of thing. So I slept a lot better. And as you said, feeling like a loaded gun. When I started eating, especially more carbs, I looked more athletic after like three weeks. And I think that was just my muscles filling up and being used to like constantly getting the fuel it needed. So that was like really pleasant. And of course, as we're progressing, that... sort of lays off as I'm increasing and eating more and more food and we're going over to the more fluffy part of things and that's also exciting but it's easier to do it when you're coaching me and telling me this is right, we're not gaining too much, it's in the right order, it makes it easier. Now, I want to kind of paint a little bit of a picture here to kind of for the listener, right? So to, to explain what we've done. You came to me, right? We started at basically maintenance, just making sure like we're fueling training, kind of good workouts in, and then you want to go into a muscle gain phase. So that's what you mean with like the getting fluffier part. It's like going into an actual surplus where I love that you brought this up before that, right? With the weighing yourself. I know, right? We don't have to do this forever, but like during this collaboration, basically, it's just helpful data to have, you know what I mean? It's just, it's objective data that we can help make decisions with. And seeing that skill being pretty stable, even though you're eating a bunch more, like hundreds of caters more, then also noticing, Hey, my muscles are filling up and I'm looking more athletic. I think that's. And that's the only way you will get that experience is by actually having it, I feel like, because we could talk about this on a podcast, but it's not until the listener, right, it's not until you do this or you weigh yourself consistently, you start eating more in a controlled fashion, right? And you notice that it's like, hey, I can actually eat more and I feel better, I sleep better, oh shit, like I don't really have to worry about those kinds of things. Like the only way you get that is by doing it, you know? Yeah, definitely. And the weight went down and then it went a bit up. And it was nice to see that I'm looking fitter even though the weight is going up. We attach so much to the number on the scale, especially as women. And that's also part of this process why I wanted to do a gaining phase, because I want to release myself from the thought process that the smaller I am, the fitter and the better. I am as a trainer and as a person. I can be bigger and better. For us girls, even though we don't want to say that we believe it, I think a lot of people go around and think the smaller I am, the better I am as a training person and as a woman. Although I think we're progressing away from that a little bit and I want to contribute to that or at least try it myself and see how... how it feels and so far it's been a great experience. Of course hard in some ways but it's a good kind of hard and for me it's really healthy. I have more freedom in my way of living with food and I also feel like I've detached myself a bit from my body. Like okay I can look a bit bigger but that's a part of the progress and I have to endure that and stick up for myself and do it in order to like... progress further on because I'm not doing this journey to look a certain way for other people. I'm doing this to have a progress in some way. And that's important for me. Although it's cooler to look fitter and more trained and all that jazz, it's mostly for me it's about progressing in some way. And when I now I work with strength training and girls and a lot of people can relate to the topics I'm talking about now. That's why I want to progress. in these things just now. And maybe in the future I'll try to be better at running. Maybe I'll go back to CrossFit. But for me it's about always trying to evolve in some way and learning from the process. So that's the most important thing. Of course it's cool to look fitter, but yeah, it's more about learning and progressing in some way. I love But either way, I like that change. Go ahead, sorry. there's especially two myths attached to the bulking part. And the first, as I also believed in a bit, I think, before we started collaborating, is that I can eat whatever I want. Because I think I said in a YouTube video or something that I want to be completely honest with my followers when I share this journey. So I said that, okay, yesterday I had my birthday celebration and I went... majorly overboard on the cinnamon buns and the pizza and yeah, I had too much, let's just say. And the people in the comments were like, okay, but you're bulking, how can that be? Shouldn't you just eat as much as possible? But that's not right, right? Right. It's you know what I tell people to do like overshooting calories and of course, right, there's something to be set for like having the birthday doing it one day. Let's be honest, we all have days where we kind of you know, we overdo it, it happens. And I feel like that's part of like learning also being okay with a fuck up here and there. And then you just keep going. But let's imagine a consistently overeating, right? I think that's worse in a surplus in a muscle gain phase, then it is in a weight loss phase. Because if you're cutting, if you're in a weight loss phase and you eat more, what happens? You lose less weight or your weight stalls, right? If we overeat in the bulk, we gain more fat. And that's the name of the game here. When we go through a lean gaining phase, it's like we want to do it controlled. step by step slowly but surely so that you mostly gain muscle with as little body fat as possible which there will still be some and that's part of the deal which people don't know but like that's part of it will happen but like overshooting your categories there would actually need to more fat gain which would mean you're gonna have to cut more later which is also at the end of the world but it's definitely not true that we should just be eating whatever right and I think I feel like a lot of people believe that so Yeah, that's myth one and the second one is That it's sort of the same but at the same time not like that You have a bulk that you're supposed to eat so much food There's especially like some guys I work with at my gym. They're like 40 50 years old and they're like Oh my god, you must be so full. You're bulking. Aren't you eating all the time? And i'm like, yeah, i'm eating but i'm not eating that It sounds like they've been bulking for some years before and they've obviously done it like the old-school way but for me, it's mostly been about going from deficit to maintenance and firstly being surprised of how much food I can eat without gaining So that was like part one just finding my maintenance that was a lot higher than I thought and then point two is finding that golden number where I'm in a small surplus but not going like overboard and now when I'm used to my maintenance and a bit more the calories I'm now on doesn't feel like that much food so That also I feel like people Think of bulking like something Arnold did in the 90s eating just all the time with shakes with oils in and stuff But it's not that it's just it's just normal food in good quantities and for most girls it feels like a big increase because we're so used to eating too little. So that's like important also to communicate that it's we're talking about a small surplus so that you can allow muscle gain but not that much fat gain. So it's We've talked a bit about this, that it's a bulk, but maybe it's more right to call it a lean gain. Because you want to just eat a bit more so that you can put on weight for muscle gain. But of course I don't want like 20 kilos of fat that I have to get rid of longer down the line. And I think because where we get most of this information from is like from like the bodybuilding space, you know what I mean? I think that's also one of the areas where research is like pretty right. It's well research and stuff like now at least. But if you look at what some of the guys were doing, like let's call it in the old days, whatever it was that it was like they had the show and then it would be like. We'd see these videos, you know, with like pizza, ice cream, and then we'd go overboard like right away, you know? If you compare that now to like the, you know, Chris Pumph said, like number one for how many years? I don't know. I don't follow bodybuilding that much, but number one there, right? The difference now is like, he doesn't do that. He does the reverse diet, right? He keeps eating, let's call it clean or mostly whole foods, right? It's a controlled way up also there. I think the old bodybuilding knowledge is still going around with the dirty bulk where you just eat whatever. But hey, if we're going to eat like shit, we're going to likely feel and somewhat look like shit in a way. Gain too much body fat and even just that difference for you or even anyone coming from under eating to actually eating enough. Just that transition, even without going into a surplus. Just that transition. is already a lot for some people, you know? Yes, definitely. And that's where the most important learning is for me and maybe for other people to see how much energy you actually need and can take before you start adding fat. A lot of people, they're training so much, they're moving so much that they need more fuel to progress in some way. So yeah, I've had a bit of... Fordommur, what's that in English? Oh, that's a good one, I don't know. Also people meaning or thinking stuff about me saying that I'm bulking and I'm of course saying that to be a bit controversial when what we're actually doing is I'm getting help to eat a bit more food, just a bit more so that I can more easily gain muscle. It's not that I have to eat maybe in a surplus to gain muscle but as I learned it's a lot easier especially when you're trained for some years. Yeah. Like exactly. Like we get to a point where like we kind of need to like, so let's put this in a few contexts. Like the beginner can definitely build muscle and lose fat at the same time. When they just start working out, they just start eating more protein, they improve their diet, they clean it up. They can actually see both at the same time at a pretty decent rate. This needs to be mentioned too. There's a lot of like influencers on online. in the fitness space who are on steroids, and I'll never recommend that to anyone, but that is very, very present. A lot of actors, a lot of influencers, whatever. That is when you can just gain a whole bunch of muscle and stay lean, right? But let's put that aside because we're not gonna do that anyway. And let's say, okay, hey, maybe you've been lifting for a couple of years. We can also put the newbie gains aside basically. If we now want to progress, we want to go through a dedicated muscle gain phase, potentially a dedicated fat loss phase. If we at least want to keep progressing from like a body composition standpoint, that's just how the body works, you know? And, um, nothing wrong with that. You know, if we want to build muscle, like that's cool. Yeah, so it's at least something you should try if you've been training for a lot of years and feel that you need something to evolve. And I know that this isn't for everyone necessarily, but as I work with the training and giving people results as you do, I feel it's our responsibility to bring this information out to people and they can handle it as they wish, of course. But if we can't give that information, then like, then who can? And I wish for girls like me that they can go and have... take educated decisions about having a glass of wine, eating out with friends, skipping breakfast, having breakfast. I want them to take those decisions because they know why and they know their own truth, rather than basing it off some Instagram post for, I don't know, a steroid influencer. It is difficult to explore the space on your own, let's call it. Right. This was the case for me almost 11 years ago now, or 11 and a half almost. You go like this is before like Instagram and TikTok and stuff. You know, it's like you go online, like you search like how to lose weight and you end up in the forums and whatever. It was already misinformation back then. Like it's even more exposure to that misinformation right now. It does get confusing. which is also why I think it's really cool that we can together share like the nutrition stuff in your apps with your people to kind of show them like, Hey, this is likely a good way to go about it. At least that's what we do, you know? And it's shown results and it's maybe a little bit less of like a, in quotes, like sexy way, right? Because it's not clickbaity. It's not like spinach bullshit or whatever, you know, it's like, no, it's just basic stuff, but it's stuff that works. Yeah, and by doing the basics and by following a process, you also learn about your own struggles with food when it comes to your emotions and how you use that as a strategy to cope with other stressors in life. For me, I'm sort of like an overeater from when I was a child. It's never been like a big thing. But when I'm stressed or just feeling for it, I can eat like a lot, maybe too much food, more than I can handle, at least so much that I don't feel well after. And that has to do with like something else that my knowledge about food is about my emotions. It's about how I used to Act as a child and as a teenager I mean when you start to like really be honest with your food Maybe especially when you work with it with a coach it forces you to also see those things And I think that's a lot bigger than we want to see we all always like search for the perfect solution for our diet when Really we know part of the puzzle for ourselves with the different things we do that we don't want to see but we do them with the food. That's where we're sort of hiding and we don't want to see it but it's there. So that's also been powerful for me. Working with you, having to be honest about that, of course I chose to be. And trying to like get rid of the things that's not serving me and that's the hardest part. Not learning by like... what's good food, we know that, but choosing the good foods also in like the hard times. Yeah. And learning how to kind of work through those things. And even if it's just that like confronting it, you know what I mean? Like actually addressing it. Same kind of thing with like, you know, things we're not supposed to talk about, whatever. And like, cause there's a lot of opinions out there, let's be honest. And you started getting those opinions, like once you started sharing stuff, but it's like, fair. Like I know people struggle with this stuff, but can we, instead of avoiding kind of just address it, you know what I mean? And that's, yes, that's an uncomfortable, you know, process. It's also necessary. At least if we want to eventually go through, and kind of overcome that thing, you know what I mean? Or learn how to deal with that. Yeah, definitely. I talk with a lot of people. I've looked them in the eye and I've said, is this really what you're eating? Because nothing tells me about this plan that you are struggling to lose weight. So there's a mismatch here. And they've looked back at me and said, I promise this is what I eat. And then, so you can't do anything more as a coach then you just have to accept it. Okay, I can't help you. This is against physics, but that's just how it is. I was just on... People have to be honest with themselves, either when it's a collab with you or when they choose to attack the new year. You have to be honest with yourselves, especially about the struggles you have. Because that's also where the biggest wins are. Although it hurts, especially with food, because it's your friends. But it's also really empowering when you learn to push through and... solve situations in a better way that has nothing to do with food. That's a powerful place to be when you're used to solve a certain situation with food and you for example choose yoga or meditation or going a walk instead of like attacking the chocolate. That's a powerful move and it seems so easy because we've heard about that situation so many times just Just take a walk instead of the chocolate. But we all know it's not just taking a walk. It's like, it's hard. So when you like get in the habit of actually doing those easy, basic stuff, it's yeah, it's powerful. For sure. I feel like that's where the real change happens. Sure, workout programs and nutrition and food, like that's part of it, obviously. I mean, the training side, that's mostly your thing. Nutrition side, mostly my thing. But both training and nutrition, there's such a big mindset component to it. And mindset also like mental growth that comes with it because we do uncomfortable things, because we lift the weights. I think it's such a cool thing. It's really cool. Like, sure. It's cool to build muscle, but like actually working through that kind of stuff and discovering. Okay. So I do this kind of thing because of something in my childhood. I'm very much used to responding this way, but now I can actually work to not do that anymore and just have a better alternative. Like that's the cool shit. It takes time though, but like that's, that's such a cool thing to see. It really is. It's powerful and also getting to know yourself and getting more confidence in who you are Also like saying no to a glass of wine even though everyone around you are doing it or you can say no because you feel That this is what I want to do I don't know. I feel that by doing a process like this and really getting into it. You're putting yourself Higher and you're really prioritizing your own needs and that's important for people not just for you to blossom but also to be the best person you can be for the people around you. And I don't know, I feel a lot of people, they're like constantly sacrificing their selves, like, okay, I'll do that for you, I'm coming now, I can skip my workout, I can just grab something on the way home. It's like in Norwegian, we call it a bjørnetjeneste, you're doing like a favor then and there, but what happens in like five, six years when you run down and yeah, you like just have to quit. instead of just doing something about it now, putting yourself first. Now, I think I want to end it with that one, putting yourself first, and then we'll do another episode, or a couple episodes, because I want to be respectful of your time as well. I love that. We do have to put ourselves first. You know, you also, like you're a parent, like we're partners, you know, or you have a partner, as you'd say. It's like, we also want to show off to the people around us, you know what I mean? And you can only really do that if you take care of your own stuff first. And that's also something that's almost like, you know, we shouldn't say that because it's like, you know, it's, what's the right word? No, I can't find a word. But it's like, it's almost like bad to put yourself first. Selfish, exactly. If everybody prioritized each other, the life would be better, but I don't believe that. And I'm not selfish. I often feel like I go out to train to be a good mom or to be a good girlfriend. So yeah, that's my belief and I'm... Yeah, I'll stand by it. Me too. Selfish. That's the exact word I was looking for. No, I think you just show up better for others. You know? So that being said, um, let's wrap it up for today. Let's continue this conversation to our listeners, to our new listeners, maybe who don't know you yet. Where can people find you? People can find me on Instagram. My name there is Pia Seberg. S E B E R G I'm also on YouTube, but those are in Norwegian. I guess I'm going to be like a big worldwide celebrity now, so maybe I have to start talking English. No, yeah, so and then my website Pia Seberg dot NO, but everything's in Norwegian, but I'm really happy to be here. Really thankful to having these talks with you Johan and just spreading the knowledge both for my followers but also to yours as well. I hope that I can serve some purpose in this forum as well Awesome. Yeah, thanks for joining. We'll be back, we'll do another one. We'll make sure to link all those pages in the show notes. And of course, to our listener, if you enjoyed this episode, please do us a huge favor, drop us a quick five star rating or Spotify or Apple, and then we'll be back soon.