Talking Nutrition
Talking Nutrition is the podcast for women who did everything right and stopped seeing results. Hosted by Johan Vesters, online nutrition and functional health coach, and founder of Odyssey Coaching Systems, the show digs into what is actually going on under the surface: metabolism, fat loss, thyroid, hormones, gut health, blood work, and the mindset and behavior change that makes results stick. No crash diets, no quick fixes, no fear-mongering. Just education, real client stories, and honest conversations, so you can understand your own body, ask better questions, and take ownership of your health.
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Talking Nutrition
#51 - Protein for Muscle Growth, Creatine, Ingredients in Shakes, and More
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In this rapid-fire Q&A Johan answers a handful of questions that were submitted during the last week of the 'Momentum May' challenge.
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(Stay tuned for our next challenge in September..)
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
1:43 Can you build muscle at maintenance when you increase protein??
10:18 What snacks to bring on a 3-day hiking trip
14:54 Does raising creatine intake have benefits?
18:06 Is protein from drinks or powder less beneficial compared to whole foods?
25:14 What if your weightlifting belt is getting too big?
26:14 Thoughts on intermittent fasting?
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Talking Nutrition is brought to you by Odyssey Coaching Systems.
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What's up guys, welcome back to Talking Nutrition today's a bonus episode where I want to share with you the recording of a rapid fire q&a that we did for our term momentum may challenge inside of our free fitness community on Facebook, which by the way, I can link down below if you'd like to join us, it's completely free. There's no sales pitch, like no surprises, right? It's really just a place where we want to help you. So we have a free trainings, we go live every single week, we have downloads, we have tools, there's a lot of good stuff in there, I'd like you to check this out, I think is really going to be beneficial because there's a lot of shit online where sure you get the information. But there's not a lot of help in terms of like applying this stuff. And that's really where we come in where that free group like we actually help you take action on this right. So so if you'd like to join us, I'll make sure to drop them in down below. We are currently like halfway into a challenge. So you cannot join us right now. But if you want to join us next time, which full transparency, we will be doing another one in September. So it's not going to be for a while. But if you want to join us in September, make sure to jump in a group and just grab your free downloads, join the live trainings, like engage and ask questions, right, because that's what it's for. And then if you'd like to you can join us next time in September. But that being said, let's get into the episode and joy and I'll talk to you very soon. First question right away, um, when you want to build more muscle is only possible while in a bulk? Or is it possible? Well, being a maintenance and maybe raised the protein intake is really good question. As for being at maintenance and raising your protein intake is not necessarily going to do that much. First of all, I think with protein because I know also this person who's actually watching live, I think he is already eating enough protein. So adding more would not necessarily be more beneficial in terms of building more muscle, what's gonna be the most important is that we are training effectively, we're training hard enough in terms of, we're training close to failure, and not all the time to failure. But we're training near failure really like stressing the muscle, we're pushing the body right, to become bigger, stronger, etc. But the most important thing is, is getting enough calories there, right. In terms of the protein intake, being a maintenance, I will say this, we could even get away with a little bit less, we really focus on like higher protein diets when we're cutting for satiety reasons for muscle maintenance reasons. But I will say, you know, once we are at maintenance, there are enough calories coming in. And that being said, we have to like, we don't have to worry as much about like losing muscle during that period. Now, not saying like, let's let's you know, let's split your your protein intake in half. But like that's a little a little side note there. So I would say hey, once you get out of the deficit, maintenance, keep protein the same. Protein really doesn't change that much. Whether we're bulking or cutting or maintenance, maybe a little higher during cut. But for the most part, we keep it the same, the way we do it, we keep our fats nice and low. For the most part, it really depends on a person, how active you are, etc. But for the most part, we keep it a little bit low so that we can get away with a lot of carbohydrates. Because here's the cool thing. When you want to build muscle, we do really want to like support your training, we want to make sure that we lift effectively we have a program, we achieve what's called progressive overload that we continue to really stress the body. Right, we continue to push it. Now, that being said, carbohydrates is really useful there. And I know this wasn't like part of the question because because I know that it's more specifically about like maintenance versus bulking, I'll get to that in a sec. But you already know I was kind of like go off on the side. But either way, these carbs. And this is something I want to bring up because people are always like avoiding carbs, that's going to allow you to get more out of your workout, you got more fuel coming in, you get to recover better, you even can use that as almost like a off switch for cortisol after your training to bring you back into a Rest Digest state. Now, back to the actual question. So can you build muscle of maintenance? Or do you need to be bulking? You can most definitely build muscle at maintenance. And that works quite well to be honest with you. And I'm just double checking my microphone. Yeah, that's all good. That works pretty well. No, what I will say too, is that it's a slow process. It's a very slow process. And for the most part, I think most people will be too impatient to really stick to building muscle add maintenance, it's very possible. Definitely, I will say, especially when you're new, you can really see a lot of like body composition in the short term, right seeing muscle gain and fat loss at the same time, same time, same rates, but same time. And I will say you know when people do use steroids and stuff like you will see a bigger difference there but we're not going to do that right So let's let's keep it healthy and natural. So either way, now moving to bulking, that is where you're going to put on more muscle. And I think this is beneficial for two reasons. Not first of all, again, building more muscle is going to be more effective. I think we always think we want to lose fat and build muscle, we always want both, right, because we're human, we want everything. But then again, a calorie deficit, right for fat loss as the exact opposite of what's needed for muscle gain Academy surplus, like that's optimal to train hard. You want to sleep well, you want to rest and recover, right? But you definitely want to eat enough for that. It's a very, it's an energy costing process to build muscle. And even just maintaining muscle requires more calories. So for your body to kind of go like, from an evolutionary standpoint, right to force your body to grab and go like, Oh, well, you know, let's, let's build some muscle. Now. Something that's expensive to maintain and build. While we're in a deficit, you know, like, it's not very logic, if you think about that way. So that being said, there needs to be a reason for your body to build that muscle. So that's the signal, this workout is your recovery, which you cannot neglect, like you have to recover well, and then enough calories. It's kind of like that concept of like chasing two rabbits, you're just going to catch one at a time. Right now, in this scenario, I'd say, you're likely going to see better results long term. Really, in a relatively short term, I will say, if you do a active bulk, or you actually increase your calories, you work on actively putting on weight, which happens, right, you gain weight, you build a muscle, and then afterwards, you can do a cut, or here's a cool thing. Way to cut like losing body fat is much easier and faster than building muscle, we build muscle, it takes a while it's a slow fucking process, and you need to give it at least 234 months, preferably. Not just that, if you still want to lose more body fat after that, there's going to be more to reveal. Because you're going to be leaner, you're going to lose your loop better, right? Because being lean is not just being lighter, we want to build the muscle and lose body fat. It's also going to set you up for a better fat loss phase. And now here's the cool thing, too. And this is something that I think virtually everyone can benefit from. And that is the lesson that you learn when you go through a act of weight gaining phase. It sounds scary. I know. It sounds very scary. I think most people don't want to do it, and most people will not do it. But if we can, and this is this is my philosophy kind of thing that we if we can walk you through every single periodization phase where you do maintenance phases for multiple months, you do cuts for multiple months. You do reverse diets, you do bulks when you've done all those different seasons, you've gone through those. You'll have the tools you can let you use for life, but it's an experience. You cannot just learn about it and be like, oh, yeah, no, I know what to do. Like, No, you need to do the thing to actually understand. Because you'll see there's got to be different roadblocks. Different mind folks, different obstacles, right? There's pros and cons to every single phase, the only way for you to really learn is by walking through all those seasons. And I really believe that virtually everyone benefit from a dedicated Muscle Gaining phase. Because once again, you're going to look better, it's not just about being lighter, you're going to look way better. If you built a muscle, your body is going to be in a better spot your metabolism, right. If you want to lose more body fat, you, you will respond way better, because you haven't spent that much time in a deficit. And you learned that lesson of seeing the scale go up and not freaking out. And there's no way to do that other than doing it. It's a hard lesson. It's difficult. It's it's even something that might actually push you to be like, oh, you know, Can I have more calories? No, anyway, it can be a little bit more flexible. But this is where people take that out of context to do like a dirty bulking to just get a whole bunch of body fat, right? Because when you bulk, it's about going slow. The faster you go, the more fat you're going again, so we don't want to do that. It's a very tedious process. But if you do this right, if you do a bulk, the results are incredible. It just takes a long time. So hope that answers answers to the question. Now go on to the next question. So what to bring our food and snacks when hiking for three days in the mountains. Kevin Kevin, first of all, it sounds super cool. That sounds awesome. And this is definitely a period where you can get away with a lot of food It kind of brings me back to going to Mount Everest base camp, where I was eating a lot of trash, like I was eating like actual food as well. But you know, it was 30,000 Plus step days, which is a lot, right? It's a lot of energy that you're burning. Depending on how far you go, etc, right? Like, I wouldn't even worry about calories there. But here's the thing, you're burning a lot of calories, so you can kind of get away with a little bit more. And I always think that these kind of moments, right, sure, can we bring something when we're driving? Etc? Can we prep a little bit of food? Yes, of course. But keep it fun, you know, have stuff that you know, it's going to keep you keep it going for a little while, I would just much rather see you have more of the flexible, fun stuff, right. And just enjoy and still include some of your staples, right, then trying to be perfect on a trip like this. So trail mix, I mean, it's in the name, you know, like trail mix is really good. I think you get a bunch of categories there, you have your nuts, so you get a lot of healthy fats from that you have your raisins in there. Again, you know, very kind of like, calorie or carb dense kind of, you know, little little packs of food, right. Like if you have the little pack of trail mix the little Sacha dirt, I guess you'd call it. Those are great to take with you super easy to bring. Just couldn't find a word of what it's called. But like it's super easy to bring with you. You can even like make your own combinations. No, some people like to do that as well. But either way, it's quick calories, you know, it's quick calories, it's easy, you can grab it, you don't have to like unpack your bag and everything, have it in your pocket. So trail mix, if you want to keep it high protein, beef jerky, dried fish is a good one, maybe protein bars, protein shakes, it's really easy to kind of like you're going to bring water anyway. Right. And I know this person is based in Norway, so we got clean water, bring a couple scoops of protein powder. Other than that, I mean, chocolate is great. It's high in calories. And it's totally cool. I know there's these, what are they called again, there's these packs of like dehydrated foods that are very, very nice. All some of them are kind of nice. Anyway, long story short of like stuff that's a calorie dense, that's easy to bring with you. And that's preferably not going to leave a whole lot of trash behind that nature. So that's one thing I will say, You know what, keep it clean. And you know, it would be nice to like not have a whole bunch of trash with us either. Going back to Nepal ephors Basecamp. Like I mentioned, we would stop at these tea houses every now and then. And I would not get like a few Oreos, I would eat a whole roll in like one sitting kind of thing you know, and then have some more stuff. And then the next time we do it like sometimes we'll let you have like multiple rolls of Oreos on day. And I'm not saying By the way, guys that this is a healthy approach at all. Definitely not. I was still eating normal foods, though. Anytime we actually sat down from lunch at a lot of you know, a lot of vegetables are queued, you know, a lot of lentils, those kind of things, eggs. I did have a supplement with me as well. But I lost a whole lot of weight on that trip. And that's kind of like my main point there. Like when you do those kinds of trips, or if it's three days in the mountains cabin a cabin, you're going to be burning a lot of calories. So long story short, hey, maybe you don't have to, like eat like multiple rolls of Oreos. So maybe I'm setting the wrong example here. But like, you can get away with more of the fun stuff. That's what I'm trying to say you know what I mean? Because you're burning off a lot. What I think can be beneficial is to potentially, depending on what phase you're in, right look into kind of like, hey, how many calories can I get? Let me kind of kind of come up with the ideal day of eating for those scenarios to where I can kind of sit down and can plan for that day. Do I want to bring my trail mix ate? Like how much is that actually, what am I getting in terms of carbs or fats, etc. It's a nice little thing to learn from, you know, and it's less about really hitting your macros there. It's just about learning what's in that food. Okay, so next time or sorry, next question. Does raising creating intake have benefits? Depends where you're at. If you are not taking creatine, yes, if you are vegan or vegetarian, especially Yes, it's going to be beneficial. Now, if you go from five to 10 grams, for example, if you're taking five grams per day, you're up to 10. That could be a benefit. But that's going to be brain benefits. Not in terms of building muscle. Now, the way it works with the benefits you get for training right, improves strength To improve muscle endurance getting a little bit more out of your training, you got enough when you eat or when you consume five grams a day, you'll see sometimes with some of the packages, it says 10 grams, like a pre loading phase kind of thing. You don't have to do that it can be beneficial. If this is if, if you just want to kind of, you know, fill up your creatine stores in a shorter time. Here's the thing, though. So creating gets stored in your muscle cell. When it's full, it's full though, but when it's saturated, more creatine is not going to like add more, if it's 100%, it's 100%, like your cell doesn't go beyond 100% When it comes to creating the source like forceful kind of thing. So that being said, for the, the muscle benefits of training benefits, muscle gain, etc. That's not necessarily more beneficial. And the filling up the muscle kind of like that's, that does happen a little quicker if you do choose to, you know, preload, basically, when you go with 10 grams, but either way, now 40 brain benefits, there's more and more and more research on creatine, it's still the most researched, I believe, or maybe caffeine, but like sports supplements out there. And the more they research, like the more reasons they find to take it, I think I'm a big fan of like taking 10 grams, or at least that's what I've been doing, you need to I think five is going to be fine, three to five, even for most people. Creatine can even offset a little bit of sleep deprivation, and can even help you this is going to call complete more like currently definitely tasking, exercise this kind of thing. So if you need to do a lot of work, you need to really concentrate that could even be beneficial. But I would say for most people these days, it's likely going to be best for you to just focus on the basics. And actually just getting enough sleep for once you know what I mean? But long story short. If you're not taking it, yeah, going to five grams could be beneficial. If you want the brain benefits, you could go up to 10 grams or more, I've seen research with more. We might even see that go up and up. I think there's been more studies with 20 and stuff. But for the most part, guys, don't have to worry about that. I would say hey, if you if you're not taking it, just go with five, if you're taking five and you would like some potential additional benefits go up attend if you want to. It's a very affordable supplement anyway. Now, next question. So is protein from drinks or powder less beneficial for any reason than protein from Whole Foods? Really? Good question. So what about the other things in those drinks and shakes besides protein? What are your thoughts on that? So there's currently a little discussion going on going around in Norway, about a specific supplement company that I don't want to name that I definitely don't agree with, with a company. But I also don't really believe in talking shit, you know, because it doesn't help anyone. So either way, we'll talk about some supplements in a sec. But let's let's unpack that. So is protein from drinks or powder less beneficial for many reasons. Compared to Whole Foods? Actually. Not really. It depends what you're getting. If you get a shitty product, if you get a shitty, fecund supplement that's cheap. Yes, like it's going to be difference. Will I always recommend Whole Foods over a protein supplements? Yes, I will. When you got your chicken and your beef, your SAM salmon, right? You get sore eggs, for example. You get so much in terms of micronutrients. And that's super key to we're not just looking at protein, right? It comes packaged with a whole bunch of other stuff that is very important for sorry, for health, etc, I lose my voice or guys lose my voice. But it comes packaged with a whole bunch of other stuff, you know. Now that being said, is protein from a supplement bad? No, it's fine. It's actually really good option. And I'm a big fan of protein supplements. Personally, I'm a big fan of whey isolates. It's very high quality protein. Yes, it's more processed, but hey, that's okay. Right. It's high quality. If you get a good brand, you get all the amino acids and it's it's a byproduct anyway, right? It's not like this, like manufacture kind of thing. So whey protein a big fan. I think it's, it should probably be a staple in anyone's diet. If you lift weights, a, you know, in terms of like being beneficial less or more. I think it could even be more beneficial. If we're looking at it's affordable It's easy to take with you. It's convenient, right? There are a lot of reasons to happen. You don't need it. But I will say one or two scoops per day, go for it. But I think it can definitely help make things easier. What I really like as well is adding that to, you know, a smoothie. So I have a scoop of protein powder, frozen banana, berries, maybe some spinach, dried, sneaking some greens, and then some healthy fats. And that's a really, really solid shake. Could be a nice recommendation there. So go on to the next part of the question, though. So what about the other things in those drinks and shakes besides protein? What are your thoughts on that? So that's, that's what that discussion is about. Here's the thing, though, like, just some good supplements out there. Right? There's some really solid supplements out there. I'm a big fan of biotech USA, which is what we have over here, Norway. Over in the US, there's a bunch of good companies like Legion, for example. You know, like, there's a lot of good ones, I think, obviously, you I even think that my protein, which is a very affordable one, I saw their ranking on lab door, which by the way, check our lab door.com If you ever want to look up specific brands, but that protein powder is actually ranked really highly, so that might even be a nice option. I'm not familiar with that one myself, but again, you know, companies like Legion, you know, biotech USA, like I said, What's the other one? Again, totally blanking out on it. Either way, there's a bunch of good ones you'll find like when you go online and you do a little bit of research, go to lab door, go to your you know, listen to your podcasts, etc. Maybe not this one specifically. Because I really like because that's the thing like, with my US clients, I just I just recommend Legion. I'm not even affiliated with them. Like, like, that's just the one that I usually recommend. But okay, so the other things and those drinks Yeah, I mean, depends what you're getting, you know, is it a protein shake? Awesome. Is it one of those fucking like MLM meal shit, like replacement shakes, like that's going to be trashed, for the most part. They're like a third sugar, it's added shit. And this is something you got to watch out for. So first of all, there's a lot of research on those kinds of companies where there was a lot of like, they actually had lawsuits. You know, people with kidney failure, a lot of shit there were, I think someone even died. But either way, that aside, which is bad enough, what they tend to do is they'll they'll mark it as, hey, this is everything you need, right? And then you look at it, it's actually like a third sugar, which is okay, right? We might as well just get an actual just a protein powder, that's just protein and then just have sugar cells, which by the way, sugar, not bad, per se, it's totally cool, right? Depending on the context, okay? That's for another day. Either way, what they'll then do is like, first of all, you have some protein in there shakes, you'll then have some sugar. And then they add a little bit of the cheapest versions, or cheapest forms of all these micronutrients, vitamins and minerals. So they can show you on the label, hey, it has all the micronutrients that you need all the vitamins and minerals, but guess what, it's all shitty form or forms. So it's going to not be the absorbed Sorry. It's usually under dose. So you're barely getting any. Like, you're not getting anything bonus there. It's all just marketing. It's, it's trash, it's a waste of money. And it's always more expensive than the actual just a whey protein. So if you're looking for your protein, right, have a whey isolate, or maybe a clear whey isolate, which is really nice, like a sports drink almost. You could have casein, for example, some plant based options these days are some pretty good ones out there these days. So yeah, I think as for supplements, in general, you don't really need that much a good protein powder. Without the added shit, you know what I mean? Just just a whey concentrate a whey isolate whatever, casein or maybe vegan option, or plant based at least, you know, or, yeah, eat away. Same. Put, but don't but don't think that you're gonna get a whole bunch of out of the like the meal replacement stuff, you know, it's just a waste of money, honestly. Other than that, you have creatine, and that's really it, for the most part, like you're not really going to get that much more out of supplements, unless it's targeted. I'm a big fan of magnesium. I will say that ashwagandha there's a couple of ones there. But again, its context. You know, like supplements really just kind of like the can make a little bit of a difference, but it's like 5% of the pyramid, you know, so it's barely anything there. So yeah. Next one, so Well, the drawback of weight loss is that suddenly the lifting belt is either too big or too loose? Yeah. There's no holes where it needed to be now And it's suggestions on how to find or fix a solution, or how to fix or find the solution. I mean, get a, get a new belt. Now I think you should be able because we're going down now, yeah, you should be able to make a new hole, just grab a knife or scissors, I should be able to do that I know I have in the past. For me, my belt began to get too small when I was bulking and then now it's kind of like, it's still fine. But like, it's just about, you know, getting there to where it's like almost like maxed out in terms of tightness, you know what I mean? So yeah, you could potentially make a new hole in your belt. If it's Velcro, though, I don't know. Next question. Last one for today. So what are your thoughts on intermittent fasting, it's, it's a tool can be beneficial, can be useful, I should say. But it's also overrated. I think for most people, it's going to make things potentially worse. There is some research that shows that points out that the risk of like binge eating does increase with intermittent fasting, especially when it's combined with a low carb diet. And we did a full episode on that I can link that actually in the show notes. But long story short, it can be a nice way to kind of restrict your eating window, and just make it easier to stick to Academy deficit, but it's not more beneficial for muscle gain, or fat loss or whatever. What I will say, with some people, you know, with digestive issues, that could be a nice tool to kind of have a little bit less, but kind of like, give the digestive digestive system a little bit of a break, if that makes sense. Yeah, like, we need to look at the context. It depends, you know, it can be useful, but here's the thing people are already stressed as fuck these days. And what tends to happen is that when you fast, especially for a longer time, you can actually add more stress to the bar. So we don't want that right. It really depends. It really is a big independent question. I mean, I'm currently kind of doing that, or at least I've just moved my breakfast later, I just kind of like that right now. We just have my breakfast at like 11. But, I mean, technically, that's in during the fasting, but you know, who cares what it's called, you know what I mean, you're just moving your breakfast later, or skipping breakfast. What I will say is that for most people, including myself, at some point, like you probably want to have something you know, you want to have some energy in your system, you want to get some micronutrients and stuff that's going to keep you full. And especially if you want to work out, right, have like a little meal before you go right, whether it's in a morning or an afternoon, like get something in so that you're actually fueled, so that you can work. So that being said, I think, I don't know, I, I like it for some people, I will say that. For most I don't for most, it's just adding stress, it's potentially even something that could lead to some, a little bit of like, weird kind of like relationship with food to where, and this is from personal experience to where I was, for example, really worried about breaking my fast right after a certain moment or before. And I didn't feel good about like when I would like actually eat later, then I feel really guilty about that. So and I know a lot of people have struggled with that as well. So I don't know, I think for most people, it's probably going to be a no. But again, it depends on the scenario. So that's a very long winded way of saying hey, depends. So that being said that is our last q&a for the momentum may challenge so on and Thursday, see Thursday, I will be going live to announce the winner. So make sure guys keep updating your daily check ins sort of Minecraft first, like update your daily check ins make sure that that's always done. Keep posting writes your stories, get your walk in your workout, etc. Your big salad your hydration, and then we will announce the winners on Thursday. So a little recap of the prizes remember so first play is gonna get a free month in our group. Second place gets a free coaching call with me and entrepreneurs a supplement stack we'll talk about supplements or what we're going to get towards the end or you know, once we get towards the announcement, because I want to first see if the