0:30

welcome back to talking nutrition

0:33

we are going to touch on smart ways to

0:36

maintain muscle mass and performance

0:38

while

0:39

cutting today and johan is going to talk

0:43

a little bit about context before we

0:45

jump into things

0:47

awesome thank you i think it's very

0:49

important right because

0:50

on this podcast to the listener like we

0:53

can't coach you

0:55

on a podcast right we don't know

0:57

anything really about your lifestyle

0:59

nutrition goals training

1:02

weight height etc all that stuff

1:05

so i want to emphasize the importance of

1:07

context and this question we got

1:10

actually in our q a box but i figured

1:12

let's do a full episode on it

1:15

just because it's something we can

1:16

really dive a little bit deeper into and

1:18

really break down

1:20

so i do want to

1:21

explain a little bit more um who's

1:23

asking this question right

1:25

so basically they asked me

1:27

hey how can i maintain as much muscle as

1:29

possible

1:30

and

1:31

keep my performance up

1:33

while cutting so to give you a little

1:35

bit of context so this person

1:37

is very much in the crossfit she's very

1:39

active

1:40

at the gym she's also a crossfit coach

1:42

she works out a lot uh but she wants to

1:44

lose a little bit of weight to help with

1:46

like the body weight movements etc

1:49

now she also wants to

1:50

keep her strength up right hold on to

1:52

muscle because then she doesn't want to

1:54

suffer in terms of weight lifting

1:57

so this is someone who's already i'd say

1:59

quite lean she wants to lose a little

2:02

bit of weight so this is going to be

2:03

much different compared to someone who

2:06

wants to lose let's say 10 kilos so just

2:08

wanted to emphasize that this person is

2:10

already very much into training and what

2:13

it's going to be for you will really

2:14

depend on your fitness level your you

2:17

know how much muscle you have a body fat

2:19

percentage etc

2:21

and to be honest too like not a lot of

2:24

people that we work with really go to

2:26

super low body fat percentages which is

2:28

when it actually gets more risky so the

2:31

lower fat percentage we get

2:33

the higher the risk of muscle loss will

2:35

be

2:36

right exactly

2:38

um

2:40

the issue

2:41

with

2:43

performance and fat loss is that they

2:46

don't go hand in hand

2:48

right like you're

2:50

focusing on

2:52

performance we shouldn't

2:54

necessarily be too worried about body

2:57

fat percentage like

2:59

i guess there's a a point there where

3:01

like

3:02

there could be

3:05

crossfit athletes that want to lose a

3:07

little bit of body fat percentage to

3:09

improve their gymnastics but then you

3:11

have to be careful because then you run

3:13

the risk of losing strength right and

3:16

this is something i'm always talking

3:18

to about

3:20

um talking with about what oh my gosh

3:22

talking to my clients about who are

3:26

more on the performance side of things

3:29

so the issue when it comes to

3:31

performance and fat loss is that they

3:34

require

3:36

the opposite so performance typically

3:39

requires you to

3:40

be eating

3:42

a lot of food at maintenance or in a

3:44

surplus and a fat loss phase is going to

3:46

require you to be in a calorie deficit

3:50

and a calorie deficit can impact

3:54

performance negatively

3:56

so

3:57

the approach becomes really important

4:00

here

4:01

and when we're talking about

4:04

an athlete going into a calorie deficit

4:08

we have to understand that we might run

4:11

into performance dips for a period of

4:14

time or we might have to

4:17

lower

4:18

training volume because of the stress

4:20

because we're trying to manage stress

4:22

right

4:22

so

4:24

let's dive a little bit deeper into what

4:27

that process might look like for

4:30

someone who's performance based but

4:33

wants to lose a little bit of body fat

4:35

so it's also really about getting into

4:37

this with the right expectations right

4:40

knowing okay cool what you just

4:41

mentioned i will lose a little bit of my

4:44

performance

4:45

i'll get it back but right now in the

4:47

short term

4:48

that's actually not going to be

4:50

the the main focus or the priority right

4:52

now in this case it's fat loss i was

4:55

going to say weight loss fat loss

4:58

so being aware of that and this also

5:00

means that you need to align this with

5:02

your season right i was just going to

5:05

talk on that

5:08

because if you have competitions coming

5:10

up or maybe whether that's a local

5:12

competition or even like a higher level

5:14

competition

5:16

you probably don't want to be in a

5:17

deficit when you're on the floor you

5:19

know

5:19

and this also goes for the open or here

5:22

in norway we have like a functional

5:24

fitness

5:25

competition which is getting pretty big

5:27

now actually

5:28

naturally

5:30

and same thing

5:31

last year i forgot how it was this year

5:34

they had it back to back

5:36

so they had to cross it open right into

5:38

the other one or what's the other way

5:39

around anyway it doesn't matter

5:41

so it was like two back to back where

5:44

you know you can imagine if both are

5:45

like four weeks long that's pretty

5:47

taxing

5:49

that's basically

5:50

two months of going hard

5:53

that's why you want to fuel

5:55

eat a whole lot sleep a whole lot and

5:57

you want to be at your best

6:00

calorie deficit doesn't allow you to be

6:01

at your best

6:03

a lot of stress on this system

6:06

with crossfit and

6:08

less food

6:10

being in a catabolic state it's it's

6:12

risky business in my opinion yeah yeah

6:15

well you're speaking from experience

6:18

sure i am

6:20

but just make sure what i'm trying to

6:22

say is like don't diet when you're

6:24

expecting to

6:26

get a pr

6:27

or you're testing for whatever or it's

6:29

to open or any other sport really it

6:30

doesn't have to be crossfit specific

6:33

so make sure to plan your year because

6:35

that trade-off is one that you're going

6:37

to have to make

6:38

at least if you first want to

6:39

effectively lose body fat and then

6:42

switch back to the performance again

6:43

because

6:44

you will lose a little bit of

6:46

performance

6:47

but you'll get it back

6:49

yep

6:50

um

6:53

the the next thing i want to touch on is

6:57

um

6:59

so the approach essentially

7:03

with someone who's performance based we

7:06

kind of want to

7:08

get in and get it we don't want to be

7:10

hanging around in a deficit for a long

7:12

period of time

7:13

so again this is why context is so

7:15

important because this approach might be

7:18

different for someone who isn't

7:19

performance based right

7:22

so

7:23

someone who's in crossfit me and johann

7:25

both agree that we would take a more of

7:28

an aggressive approach

7:31

it's a shorter time period we're

7:34

dropping calories quicker

7:37

that way the stress

7:40

we're not stressing the system for a

7:42

long period of time

7:45

right so that might look like

7:48

15 20 25

7:50

deficit right off the top you know

7:53

staying in

7:55

that cup for like

7:57

how long six to eight weeks maybe like

8:00

around there i would say maybe eight

8:02

weeks i mean that's still a short period

8:04

of time

8:05

um but again you're managing that

8:08

overall stress that way we're not

8:10

stressing the system for too too long

8:12

i totally agree because the longer we

8:14

diet the the worse we're going to be off

8:16

in terms of

8:18

adaptations

8:19

performance or loss of performance as

8:21

you'd say

8:22

and and risking you know losing muscle

8:25

mass so all together it's kind of like

8:27

let's just get it done you know let's

8:29

get it over with let's maybe not go too

8:32

aggressive remember that the rates that

8:33

we talked about earlier

8:36

in another episode

8:37

uh where it's like maybe the one percent

8:39

okay cool let's maybe not go beyond that

8:42

and depending on the person we might

8:43

look into that rate or not but

8:45

let's go hard let's get in get out

8:48

just to make sure

8:50

that we don't give the metabolism too

8:52

much time to slow down right

8:55

now additionally

8:57

it's all time that you're not spending

9:00

building muscle

9:03

so the longer in a deficit

9:05

the less time you're spending

9:07

eating enough

9:09

actually facilitating muscle growth or

9:10

at least you know maintaining what you

9:12

have

9:13

and so also you know being able to

9:15

really chase performance again

9:17

so that's why i totally agree i think we

9:20

should get out

9:21

basically as soon as possible right

9:23

without

9:25

going too aggressive so you see there's

9:27

a fine line here i know

9:29

i'll try having a coach is so helpful

9:33

we're biased but it's true yeah

9:37

um

9:38

the next thing is to

9:40

keep protein high i mean this goes

9:44

for everyone across the board to be

9:46

honest with you

9:47

um

9:49

it's going to help simply maintain that

9:51

muscle it's going to give you the

9:52

materials to

9:54

do so protein literally

9:56

plays into

9:58

every cell and tissue in our body and so

10:00

we need to be getting an adequate amount

10:03

um with

10:06

athletes or performance based

10:09

individuals i typically recommend like 1

10:11

gram

10:12

or 1 to 1.2 1.4 grams per pound of body

10:16

weight

10:17

um

10:18

again

10:19

someone who is leaner is going to need a

10:22

little bit more i'd say a lot more than

10:25

someone who has

10:27

more body fat to lose so we want to keep

10:30

that protein high it's also going to

10:32

help with satiety and fullness right

10:35

managing that hunger

10:36

and keeping protein high as you said is

10:38

not even just important in a cut we

10:41

actually want to

10:42

bring it up a little but other than that

10:44

we don't necessarily want to mess with

10:46

it too much anyway compared to

10:47

maintaining or bulking right it's

10:50

it's going to always be

10:52

the priority in terms of macros and then

10:55

unfortunately

10:56

where we're going to have to make the

10:57

adjustments are going to be your carbs

10:59

and your fats

11:01

now knowing that this person once again

11:03

contacts so this person is doing a lot

11:05

of crossfit a lot of training a lot of

11:07

stress on the body

11:09

she wants to maintain performance as

11:11

much as possible as well as maintenance

11:13

carbohydrate is going to be a priority

11:15

for her why is that carbs first of all

11:18

are your preferred fuel source

11:20

especially for that high intensity

11:22

sports like crossfit

11:24

but it's also going to play a huge role

11:26

in

11:27

shutting off cortisol like after

11:29

training

11:30

because when you eat carbs we spike

11:32

insulin which then can blunt cortisol

11:34

and kind of bring you out of that stress

11:36

state

11:37

which is also very important so you can

11:39

see that okay we got protein carbs our

11:42

priority and then what's left are fats

11:46

now you don't want to completely take

11:47

out your fats but you can go pretty low

11:50

so i can't really give you an exact

11:51

prescription here when it comes to your

11:53

macros right but remember protein is

11:55

going to be priority and carbohydrate

11:58

for you know performance also recovery

12:00

nfs are a little bit less of a priority

12:03

but here also context matters uh we

12:05

don't necessarily know

12:07

how much this would be so so we can't

12:09

necessarily say like these should be

12:11

your macros but just be aware that carbs

12:13

are going to be a little bit more

12:15

important here compared to fats

12:17

exactly

12:19

um and then we have here like keep

12:22

lifting weights but we know that

12:23

crossfit people are going to keep

12:24

lifting weights they're going to keep

12:26

doing exactly what they're doing

12:28

um

12:29

talking a little bit about

12:31

potentially

12:36

lowering volume a little bit um just

12:39

based on how you feel i mean that can

12:41

help again we have to remember it's

12:43

temporary

12:44

um

12:45

and we can increase volume intensity

12:47

again once we're out of the deficit but

12:49

we're trying to manage some of that

12:51

stress so

12:53

that can be based on how you're feeling

12:56

for sure

12:57

some people respond better you know to

12:59

deficits and stress others don't so

13:01

again that's going to be

13:03

very individualized

13:05

on

13:06

the training side of things

13:09

and like for me

13:11

um i actually never dieted when i was in

13:14

crossfit never on purpose

13:17

uh i under ate

13:20

just because i didn't have the knowledge

13:22

um but once i had a nutrition coach who

13:26

was feeding me

13:27

and i had a uh my actual crossfit coach

13:32

those two were interacting so if this is

13:35

you that's really important to make sure

13:38

that like

13:39

your nutrition coach and your actual

13:42

coach

13:43

know what's happening

13:44

um

13:45

so they can adjust if needed right even

13:48

if like you potentially need a refeed

13:51

day or like something like that but it's

13:53

really important for you to

13:55

be communicating and not trying to just

13:58

be tough and push through feeling like

14:00

like it's you just you don't want

14:03

to do that so

14:05

if you're in the cut and you're feeling

14:07

like

14:08

super fatigued you know you're really

14:10

seeing performance hit make sure that

14:13

you're communicating that with your

14:14

nutrition coach also your regular coach

14:18

and potentially they'll add something in

14:19

like a refeed which can help for the

14:22

time being you know um this is kind of

14:25

going off of what we had planned but i'm

14:28

thinking back to my own experience

14:30

um it's just really important to

14:34

be

14:34

open

14:35

and be transparent about how you're

14:38

feeling and communicate

14:40

because it's only going to benefit you

14:42

right a lot of the time

14:45

crossfitters try to be tough

14:48

right they're they're they are tough

14:49

they are tough i should say they're not

14:51

they're not trying to be tough but

14:53

they'll push through things

14:55

right injuries feeling like crap

14:58

right so

15:00

yeah i i just want to emphasize

15:02

communication you know with your coach

15:04

if you do have one

15:06

right if you don't i mean

15:08

you can't really communicate yes

15:12

cause like this person she's a coach too

15:13

by the way and uh

15:16

so mostly on the training side of things

15:18

hey coaches need coaches too oh oh yeah

15:20

for sure that's why you have coaches why

15:22

i have a coach but we both have mentors

15:24

in

15:25

spend a lot of money

15:27

on that stuff you know yeah because

15:30

even if it's just for the accountability

15:32

and once again

15:34

like

15:35

we're super biased because we are

15:36

coaches

15:37

but we also believe in this yeah

15:39

because we know it works

15:41

we're all emotional beings and we often

15:43

make those decisions based on like

15:45

feelings and you know i'm not

15:47

always on logic

15:49

so i think there's something to be said

15:50

about just the accountability side of

15:52

things and right having someone to keep

15:54

you in check

15:56

so i'm not going to lie like i'm in week

15:58

17 of my car it's getting hard now you

16:00

know

16:01

i don't really want to go to the gym

16:03

yeah

16:04

but you have that accountability

16:06

yeah you know and

16:08

macros are pretty low and i'm definitely

16:11

feeling it

16:13

so the accountability

16:14

definitely helps a whole lot

16:16

right

16:17

i also feel like a lot of people are

16:20

expecting the risk of muscle loss to be

16:22

super high right it's like as low as

16:25

soon as we go beyond that one percent

16:26

we're like

16:28

it's probably not going to be too bad

16:30

you know you really have to push it and

16:32

you already have to be very lean

16:34

to really risk quite a bit you know or i

16:37

should say and or so either be super

16:40

lean and or

16:41

really push it in terms of being in a

16:43

deep deficit for too long yeah for too

16:45

long that's the problem deep and too

16:47

long

16:48

yeah so if you don't push it too far you

16:51

should probably be fine and then if you

16:53

keep training as well because i mean i

16:55

know she's going to keep training

16:56

because she loves it

16:58

but

16:59

the amount of training that you need to

17:00

do to hold on to the muscle that you

17:02

have

17:03

is much less

17:05

than what it takes to build it initially

17:08

and i believe it's even you know down to

17:11

a third or less

17:12

right in terms of volume

17:14

so

17:15

in this case

17:17

i wouldn't necessarily worry too much

17:19

about the muscle loss

17:22

you know assuming that sleep is taken

17:23

care of but we'll get into that in a sec

17:26

and then when it comes to training you

17:28

know performance

17:30

yeah you'll see a bit of a drop but

17:31

you'll get that back

17:33

um

17:34

i think the last point here is

17:36

prioritizing sleep

17:39

this is like the foundation to our

17:41

health in general for all things

17:44

so that is

17:48

i would say the most important of them

17:50

all to be honest with you if it's if

17:52

you're asking my opinion

17:54

um that's where all of our repairing is

17:56

happening right that's where we're

17:57

recovering for not getting enough if

17:59

we're not recovering we're going to

18:03

increase the risk of that muscle loss

18:05

plus we're just simply increasing more

18:07

stress on the body

18:09

and again we're trying to

18:11

try to manage that as much as possible

18:13

so sleep is definitely at the top of the

18:16

priority list

18:17

and not just in this case in in every

18:20

case

18:20

whether you have fat loss goals

18:22

performance health

18:25

muscle gain you name it

18:27

yeah it's the cornerstone corner stone

18:30

to our health

18:31

yeah it really is

18:34

because if you sleep like a lot of

18:36

other stuff is always going to suffer

18:38

if you sleep great

18:40

pretty much everything is going to be

18:41

much easier

18:43

decision making you know motivation

18:46

uh actually wanting to train workouts

18:48

make healthy food choices

18:50

sleep is going to affect

18:52

hunger hormones tighter hormones your

18:54

hormones in general like not just those

18:56

you know

18:57

right and then

18:59

and that sleep is even going to affect

19:01

how much muscle you lose compared to how

19:03

much fat you lose so remember we talked

19:06

about fat loss versus weight loss in the

19:08

second episode

19:09

now

19:10

this is exactly what i mean so there's a

19:12

really cool study that compared two

19:14

groups where one group

19:17

was only allowed to spend five and a

19:18

half hours in bed

19:20

the other group

19:21

eight hours

19:24

they compared the data

19:26

and a group who was in bed for five and

19:27

a half hours

19:29

lost way more muscle mass the funny

19:31

thing is that they lost the exact same

19:33

amount of weight

19:35

in terms of kilos

19:37

not in terms of fat loss and muscle

19:39

so even there

19:41

you could have everything dialed in but

19:43

sleep like

19:45

and still risk losing muscle

19:47

so out of all of these and i totally

19:49

agree with you

19:50

out of all of these sleep is probably

19:52

going to be the number one priority

19:55

which should really be the case anyway

19:57

right

19:58

typically athletes are pretty good about

20:00

that though

20:02

i think so because

20:04

and especially in crossfit too because

20:06

we're getting into

20:07

you know apps like romwa to do a little

20:09

bit more of the the stretching and the

20:11

recovery side of things right and we

20:14

tend to be or you know crossfit in

20:16

general tend to be more

20:18

kind of like into it like in into the

20:19

whole thing right not just the

20:21

performance side of things but also

20:22

recovery and just diving a little deeper

20:25

in terms of sleep

20:27

you know nutrition etc

20:29

yeah

20:30

okay let's summarize this and go through

20:33

each point that we touched on

20:35

so the first one was

20:37

not dieting for too long

20:40

and not going

20:42

too aggressive so

20:44

dieting too long and going too

20:45

aggressive we want to

20:47

diet for a shorter amount of time you

20:50

can still go a little bit more

20:52

aggressive here right we just don't want

20:54

that prolonged

20:56

stress on the system

20:59

second thing was to keep protein high so

21:02

we recommend body weight or 1.2 to 1.4

21:06

grams per pound of body weight

21:08

keeping carbohydrates high as well

21:12

and then lastly keep training which i

21:14

know in this case is not going to be an

21:15

issue so you want to keep lifting

21:17

weights you basically want to send a

21:18

signal to your body of hey we still need

21:20

to hold on to these muscles right

21:22

there's still a use for them that's all

21:24

we got to do

21:25

we're not trying to say hey we need to

21:27

build new muscle because it's just not

21:29

the ideal environment for it even though

21:32

sometimes we can still build muscle even

21:34

in the deficit it's just not very likely

21:37

but keep training to send that signal

21:40

and once again it's much easier for your

21:42

body to hold on to the muscle that you

21:44

do have already than to build it

21:47

last point very important for any kind

21:49

of goal any health and fitness goal

21:52

and that is sleeping enough

21:54

ideally when you train a lot i would say

21:56

let's try the aim for

21:59

you know seven eight hours like eight

22:00

would be great but hey let's be

22:02

realistic like that's not always the

22:04

case these days

22:05

um i wouldn't really go lower than seven

22:08

right like

22:10

six

22:11

uh once a week you know

22:14

preferably not at all

22:16

but you know try to emphasize recovery

22:18

because the recovering that you do is

22:20

when you're asleep it's not at the gym

22:23

it's when you're asleep

22:25

you try to aim for 7 to 8 and you should

22:27

be pretty good i'd say

22:30

boom

22:31

those are our tips hope you enjoyed the

22:33

episode and we'll talk to you soon