What's up and welcome back to Talk Nutrition. Today we have Pia back for a second episode together. What's up Pia, how are you? Hello, nice to be here, so happy to be back, thank you. I haven't talked to you since last year. How's the new year been for you? It's been nice. I really appreciate the holidays, but I appreciate the everyday life even more. So I think it's nice to be back in the good old routines. Do you get the two where it takes a little while to get into that groove again? I want to say yes, but really no. I'm just so eager to get back into the routines and I have them like programmed in my everyday life. So not really, no. What about you? Yes or no? I'm going to say yes or no because it depends on whether it's like my fitness stuff and my own nutrition and all that, you know, or like work related. I'd say I'd say both. I definitely see though with a lot of people that it takes a little while, you know, it's like anytime, I don't know, like anytime someone starts like a fat loss phase or a lean gain phase or even just maintenance, like the initial weeks are always kind of getting used, you know, figuring things out and The same kind of thing goes even just with the nutrition, like routines and training, you know. People go from being on a roll and then it's New Year's or Christmas and they're completely just dysregulated because it's like not like the usual day to day. And then it takes a little while to get into that again. Yes, I completely understand that. And I always say that it's in that way, I have a different lifestyle than a lot of other people because I run my own business and the nutrition and training is a big part of my work as well. So it is a lot easier for me to just go onto those routines again, because I fill my lunch. It's what I do. So it's easier for me and maybe you as well than it is if you have like your whole life outside of the training and nutrition stuff then I couldn't fully understand that it takes like a couple of weeks after a vacation to like Yeah, get into the groove again Yeah, I do. I do feel that. I will say this. So, I mean, I do agree because obviously you're, you know, very involved with training, meets mostly nutrition. Of course we both do like both sides, but like you are right. Like it's something that we consistently just are involved with on like a day to day basis, like all day kind of, you know. But I do think that ultimately, because we obviously get a lot of people who are just getting started with their journey, you know. Which, I mean, those people are really talking about in this episode, kind of like helping them create like a good healthy diet, let's call it. Ultimately, you want that to be part of your life, right? The nutrition training, like that should be ingrained in like what you do on a day-to-day basis, or at least it shouldn't be like a separate thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, and I feel that's like a journey for a lot of people because to get there you almost have to change your identity. And I feel like training is one thing but nutrition like we talked about the last time, it's the choices you make all the time during your day. And it's not just for yourself, it's at work with the family and stuff. So yeah, it's hard, but of course it should be like something you do on autopilot almost, but maybe it takes like some months or maybe years to get there. Yeah, I do think so. And you know, you have a lot of people diving into the articles in your app and your apps, basically, I think also there because there's a lot of information in it and even just like learning about nutrition in general. Also through this podcast and you know, the stuff that you put out, like it does take time, you know, it does take like at least months, if not like a few years, depending on where someone is. Yes, and that's so important that people understand that when they do this, it really means they're serious about changing their diet because they want to achieve something, either with their training or physique. You have to understand that you have to make changes that you can live with for your whole life, unless it's some extreme stuff, but we don't work with extreme stuff. It's like normal people like you and me just that just wants to. I don't know, look like they're training, that's like an important part of it. And also getting more energy, fueling their self and their health. You know. Do you feel like, so how was your nutrition during the holidays compared to like normal in quotes? It's a lot more all over the place. It's about eating with your family and friends and just going with the flow. And I can feel that flow is a lot different than my usual flow when I do my own choices. And also when you get like bread and butter and nice... Pålg, what's that in English? Yeah, like, um, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. Like deli meats and like cheese and like stuff you put on a sandwich. I know exactly what you mean, but yeah, stuff you put on the sandwich. Basically. Yeah. I find it really hard to control myself and that's why I'm so occupied with taking healthy choices in my everyday life because I know that if I have these temptations all around me all the time, it's hard to... I'm not a take one chocolate chip kind of girl, I eat the whole bag, you know? So yeah, I just kind of splurge a bit in the, when I have a vacation and I can do that and not feel bad because I know that I get back to my everyday routines when I'm done with the holiday. But it's a good training in like having a treat but not going fully overboard and I feel like I'm getting there. But some overeating during the holidays. does always occur. Unfortunately. What about you? I think it's, you know what, like, because this even ties into the first part of like what we want to address it really quick to the listener, like, today we're going to be basically breaking down like, what healthy eating in quotes like really means, you know, so that it's actually sustainable. We want to be flexible. I also don't want people to take the word flexible too far because it's not a, you know, like a, you know, golden ticket to do whatever the hell you want to do. But like we do want to do both, you know what I mean? And just that stuff that you just mentioned, because that's why I asked, it's like, we should be able to go through like Christmas and have the cookie and have the stuff, have that family dinner, which a lot of cases, you know, when it comes to like riba, for example, which is a Norwegian word for the listener, by the way, or like pinnachette, you know, like those kinds of things, like that stuff that you probably eat like once a year, you know? So, We could go like, oh yeah, it's very fatty and whatever it is. Like, yeah, sure, it's very fatty. It's also really fucking good. We're also gonna have the gingerbread cookies and those kinds of things. Eating healthy and living like a healthy lifestyle doesn't have to mean that we're not gonna do those things anymore, you know what I mean? And to your question, because for me it's pretty similar in a way. I have certain things set up to where like I lower my meal frequency so that I can have bigger meals. I'll still have like equal protein feedings basically. That's my main focus. And then also, you know, stay active and make sure I get some lifts in. I hit my steps, get outside, got a lot of good sleep in. Like that week for me, like sleep wise, it was the best. You know? But yeah, also when it comes to chocolate and those kinds of things, I also do have a weak spot for that. To where one, I do allow myself more around that time. Also knowing, hey, I'm gonna dial it back in right away after, which plays into like the 80-20 principle. But then also knowing that like in the grand scheme of things it's really not gonna do that much. It's really difficult to really gain like multiple kilos of like body fat like in a very short time, you know, like you'd have to eat thousands of calories over your diet, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I agree and I know that after working with the diet for so many years and especially after working with you I've really learned that so I know that also it's very little harm that these big meals can do but for myself and clients I'm mostly occupied with them having a good feeling during the holidays as well because I know how splurging too much and like eating a whole lot more candy than you were planning on how it affects you mentally. So knowing what you just said is really important but also trying to eat within your needs and eating what feels good and giving yourself the possibility to enjoy but not overeating just because you can. And I feel like that's a constant training thing for myself and a lot of other people I think. Yeah. So at the time it is recording, I'm actually writing an article this week on willpower because there's kind of like two sides to that, you know, we can in a way we can address our willpower. We can, you know, create that or, you know, cultivate that. But by, you know, doing some might work mindset stuff. But it's also about setting up your environment for success. To where you don't always have to practice self-control, where you don't have to rely on willpower. Right. Which goes into healthy eating. It's like, if we create just as routines and we kind of get really clear on, hey, this is kind of like my day to day. We want to have variety, but we want to still have our healthy foods in place. We, we create somewhat of a structure to where. We know like, hey, I'm eating this many times a day, right? I'm eating like these healthy foods and make sure I get my proteins, et cetera. With the chocolate and all that, which is around way more during Christmas, I feel like now not having that in the house is gonna be a huge one. And I think people by now, like, I mean, we're into like it's mid January already, which is kind of crazy if you think about it. Mm. I feel like we're already past that, you know, where like we don't really have those chocolates like around the house anymore. But this is something that you want to remember, like you can create the environment so that you don't have to practice the self-control. That's huge. Definitely it makes it a lot easier. I can really recommend the book by Mennon Henselmans What's it called again self-discipline It's something about self-discipline It's a whole book about that and how to make your life easier when it comes to making good choices for yourself and your health And it's a really good book But I also wanted to ask you so now we're stepping into the new year And I work a lot with training and you work mainly with nutrition and that's why we go so good together I needed your help and yeah, we're helping each other out. And so I wanted to ask you what you think about the claim abs are made in the kitchen. Do you think that's right? I love that question. They're not made in the kitchen. But they're revealed in the kitchen, I feel like. Mmmm It's like, you're not going to eat and create abs, you know what I mean? That the building, like that's it's muscle gain. It's a muscle that you can train, which really goes into, and you've maybe noticed this as well. I feel like the last years, maybe less now, but like people have gone into, Oh, you don't have to train abs because if you just do your big compound movements, you're training your core anyway, blah, blah. But it's, it's a muscle, right. Or it's muscles. If you want to create bigger abs, we can train our abs. Simple as that, right? However, we can reveal them by cutting body fat. That's how it's going to go. If you want to build them, right? You want to train, just like any other muscle, if you include more of it in your program, like you're going to build more bigger abs. If you want to reveal them, you want to cut body fat, you want to lose some weight, go into a fat loss phase, so that it shows up, because they're there. You know what I mean? Like they are there. You just said you might not see it because there's a layer of like fluff over it. You know what I mean? Here's the thing though. This is something people don't know. Different people will look different at similar body fat levels. And a big part of that is genetics, which isn't talked about enough, I feel like. Because you and me could have like the same body fat percentage and have completely different kind of abs. Some people might have a higher body fat percentage and actually have visible abs compared to someone else who might be lower body fat percentage, but might still be struggling to kind of get visible abs. You know what I mean? So unfortunately, like... Part of it is outside of your control because it's, you know, genetics and stuff. That's a big, big part of it. But I still don't think we should use that kind of as like an excuse or whatever it is. We're not doomed. It's like, hey, if you want to have more visible abs, we can train them. And yeah, then if you want to reveal them, like we want to cut body fat, you know? Does that answer your question? Yes, definitely on a very specific level because I feel like Absorbing in the kitchen. It sounds cheesy, but at the same time it It tells us that we have to do something with our nutrition to affect how our body looks And I feel like a lot of people especially girls Maybe even more before but it's all about in january running on the treadmill burning calories and like that's the most important thing they do to like we know so much more about how you build an athletic physique and of course training and nutrition is about so much more than how You look but I'm tired of not talking about how you can use training and diet to look a specific way And I mean people deserve to know how they can move their body in the way they want to So I'm trying to teach my clients and it took a while for me to learn this as well as well that we have to use training to build and we need muscle even if you're, when you're gaining you need it and also when you're cutting because it's always about the body fat that you want to like regulate and also muscle mass of course but especially when you're trying to cut as a loose body fat it's about precisely that losing body fat and not necessarily weight And that's just so important to understand. And also that you don't have to adjust your training that much necessarily. It's more about the food you eat. Because a lot of people come to me in January and like, I think I'm gonna do three more sessions of intervals so I can burn fat. And of course you burn some more fat and some more energy, but mostly and probably you're gonna get drained. And when you come home from those three interval sessions to your training week, you're maybe gonna be so tired that you eat more than you just spent doing those sessions. So that's why I feel we need to talk more about nutrition as a goal to affect how we look because it's just so much more effective than like training ourselves to death. You brought up a really good point because you do see that a lot. And I think we could, we should be able to talk about this stuff, you know, because that's also another one. It's like somewhere it became almost like a no-go to talk about fitness for your, the way you look, you know what I mean? Like we can do everything, you know, like you want to be healthy. You want to look the way you want to look and you want to get strong, whatever it is, you want to build your fitness, but that's a really good point. Like I don't think so. Cardio, yes, absolutely. Of course, it does play into, you know, we're burning calories, right? Working out, high intensity, whatever it is. Of course we are burning calories. First of all, it's not that much, but that's not even a point. But I want people to know, like, okay, when you train, whether it's lifting weights or even body weight or cardio or high intensity, like, just think of that as building, whether it's building muscle or you're building your aerobic capacity, your, you know. cardiovascular health, like all that stuff is so important. You want to do it from like a building standpoint. It's like this is good for me. I'm building a healthier, fitter, stronger body, you know. It's not we're doing this to burn calories and then body, you know, burn body fat. Like sure, it counts, but you'll burn out at some point. There's only so much you can add. And it's just not the right way to go about it. Because in reality, which is kind of sad, We've all been to gyms where you see the same people do the same over and over again. They show up to do hours of cardio knowing that, hey, you know, this person, a lot of times they're trying to lose body fat, you know, months down the road, they're still in the same spot, unfortunately, which is kind of sad. That's not their fault. It's just that there's a lack of education, which is the, you know, the fitness pace, I feel like it's getting better, but still there's a lot of BS out there, you know, like we, that's why we got to do better. And that's why we got to talk about this stuff. Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. I feel like I can, when we talk about it, it's a good conversation. And that's what's so good about podcasts as well, that you get to enlighten all the aspects of the discussion. So it's almost better than doing a post in social media because people misunderstand the message. It's also difficult with social media, especially these days, because it's getting shorter and shorter. With nutrition and fitness and health, there's so much nuance to it that you can't cram it all into like 10 seconds. You know what I mean? That's what makes it difficult. That's why I also love podcasting. Definitely. But to your point, so with the body composition stuff, yeah, it is fine for people to have those goals. You know what I mean? And I think, because I talked to someone about this today, because I'm doing check-ins, and she told me like, hey, I know it's not necessarily like the goal, but I am looking forward to being leaner this summer. And right. And I was like, you know what, like, you can absolutely use that as fuel for your journey. Like she started cunning. I explained like, hey, look, you want to be leaner by summer. And it's January right now. Like the timeframe is perfect. We do fat loss, we do a reverse diet, we go to maintenance. But hey, like if that is part of what you want to do, like sure, the actual why is maybe not like, looking leaner at the beach. Like sure, that's like surface level, but like why is that, right? So that's gonna make me feel more confident, whatever it is, lower body fat percentage is gonna come with improved health markers. Like it's gonna show up in our blood work, you know? Like there's so many aspects to that, to what I told her, like, hey, you know, sure. Like it's maybe not like the... the ultimate like why, but it's part of it. It's part of what you wanna achieve. So, and hey, let's be honest, like we kinda all wanna look good, right? To a certain extent. There's people who care about it more than others, but we wanna feel good. Like if we take our shirt off, we wanna feel good about it, you know? It doesn't have to be like, oh wow, you know, supermodel, but it's like, we just, we don't feel bad about it. That's what we're trying to say. Make sense? Yes definitely and I feel that people get a lot more confident when they start working with these things So even though as a even though you don't look like that's a super model and you probably will never Do that either when you start to train and when you start to take more of the better Decisions about nutrition you also get more confident in your own body because you know that you're showing up for yourself And that is so valuable So I feel just by getting in the process of training, making good food choices and showing up for yourself, that's powerful. And of course, if you can do that over time, that's what will change your body as well. But of course, it's always about helping people to achieve their goals, but also reminding them that it's not necessarily realistic to look like the person on Instagram. For sure. So kind of tying this into what we're actually going to talk about with building your own diet. I think there's a couple of basics here that we can definitely work on no matter where we are at in our journey. So let's talk a little bit about the unhealthy and, you know, healthy foods debate a little because I know it's like a big one in Norway, right? Yes, I get so much questions about what's healthy and what's not healthy. We learn a lot about different diets being the solution to fat loss, regulating weight. And it's just sometimes it's hard to explain to people that it's not about good or bad foods, but more so about moderation. But I don't know, I'm not... I don't judge people that do diets, for example low carb, if that is what works for you. But maybe we have to teach people that it's not about the magic diet, but it's rather about creating rules that works for you in your everyday life. Because that's like the magic solution I feel like even if it's, so whatever it is, if it's working with you, going keto or whatever. It's like, what can you stick to? You know what I mean? And I think a lot of times that this is my main problem with this whole debate because I see people on Twitter and threats like going against each other with studies and you know, and then there's like a lot of fear mongering around processed foods and then Norway is like going really big on like the ultra processed stuff and there's like this big debate and everyone's talking about it yet in the meantime. people are still like, okay, so what do I eat then? You know what I mean? Because now we think, like, it's almost like everything is gonna kill you. You know what I mean? So what I always like to focus on is like, hey, yes, absolutely, like, maybe some people are gonna go higher carb or higher fat, whatever it is. Hey, maybe for some people, a little bit of fasting could help, but those are all tools, right? I think when it comes to like the vegan and the carnivore camps, it's like, it's pretty clear. Like, yes. both sides can probably pull up a study and say, hey, this one study is not gonna say this one thing, right? And they use it as proof. And there's like a new Netflix documentary right now that also, you know, promotes veganism and stuff. But it's like, hey, okay, let's look at that side. Let's look at the other side. And then let's look at what just the, what's like the average, let's call it, of all the research kind of says, if that makes sense. I know average is not the right word to use, but you know what I mean. It's like, if we look at everything and the most common trends, it's pretty clear that usually like that middle ground is kind of the solution, you know, and it's never the interesting stuff is not extreme, but it is the stuff that works. And we should probably eat some animal products and fruits, vegetables, and probably like mostly minimally processed foods, whole foods, maybe not all super processed stuff. and then we're probably fine, you know what I mean? Yeah, and that's a good thing about having a coach. Like when we work together, you automatically get help to adjust your nutrition and your diet based on what you eat from before. And because you, my impression that is that you always start with like sort of a food log, so I, as a client sent you what I normally eat, I loved it, loved it, and then we work off of that. And I feel that makes it a lot easier for people to create their own rules and their own fun. it as their own answer to what's a good diet for them rather than trying to read it in a magazine and be like okay I'm going to try this recipe because maybe it works for you but maybe not for me as you have to do your own thing and it gets it's easier to find that solution when you work with someone who knows nutrition and can help you. Yeah, because then you can work on things one step at a time. So a couple of basics that I always wanna focus on is like fruits and vegetables. Like I did this a little while ago in my free Facebook group. I did basically like a habit assessment quiz where I had people like fill out, right? Hey, like one to five, like how common do you do these kinds of things? And fruits and vegetables was like one of the main ones where people were lacking. So, which was kind of surprising to me, because usually, I mean, we kind of know, right? Eating healthy, okay, we should eat some fruits, veggies, you know? But at least that's the difference between knowing and doing. Like a lot of people were not doing that. So, from experience also with the clients, it's like, I've seen that being two of the main ones. Are you eating one to three servings of fruit per day? Are you eating like two to four servings of veggies per day? If not. Hey, let's just work on that. Same with the protein, right? Hey, are you having protein like with every single meal? Of let's call it 25, 30 plus maybe grams per meal. Like, are you getting that consistently? And as in like almost every meal. If not, let's just focus on that first. And I just gave away the main three, right? For most people that I've seen at least, you know, that require work. Because again, it's, we kind of know these kinds of things. People know, right, even listening to this podcast, it's like the millionth time they've heard, hey, you should eat more protein and eat more fruits and veggies, you know? But it's about doing it consistently, like over course of weeks and months. And then you'll start to notice those differences. Definitely and if you do that on the week by week the Holidays won't matter. So we definitely agree on that flexible dieting is the way to go and That absinthe are made in the kitchen partially And I also want to talk about how to build the perfect plates without like counting and that kind of stuff But first I'm like curious about how a day in your life looks regarding to nutrition Like breakfast, lunch, dinner, nighttime or do fast. Like how does a normal day of your meals look like? I like that question. So I've gone back and forth from, in the beginning, I didn't want to share my stuff because it came from a good place. I was like, I don't want to share necessarily because I don't want people to think this is a special way to eat or whatever. But then again, it works. It's like inspiration and ideas. You know what I mean? So I've definitely changed my approach when it comes to that. I do post a lot more. Don't get sick. But... No, you could. So typical day, my breakfast and this has been for as long as I can remember, really. I'll change it up sometimes, but like 99% of the time it's oats with water. I throw in like mixed berries and that goes in a microwave first for minutes. And then after I stir in like a scoop of protein, usually like a big scoop, you know, and then I add peanut butter. or any kind of nuts and seeds, you know? Usually that's either like walnuts or maybe like chia, because then I got a good amount of protein right away. And it's those four steps that we always talk about. So I want people to think like, when you create that meal, right? You wanna think protein, carbs, fats, and color. So color is like fruits and or veggies. So I followed those steps for every single meal. So right there, right? Protein, it's whey, sorry, oats is carbs. For healthy fats, right? peanut butter in this case, or like chia seeds. And in color is the berries, so that's one. And do you like get up out of bed and go straight to the kitchen and eat or do you like hang around and do some other stuff first? Because people are like very like should I eat breakfast or not eat breakfast blah I think if you are going to, let's say, do a morning workout, I think absolutely we should have breakfast. I know there's a lot of hype around fasting. Technically, I do it as well, so I'm not even going against it here. But having something in your system will just objectively lead to a better workout, right? Now what I like to recommend in general is like a three to one ratio when it comes to carbs to protein. So it could even be something small, right? Like that's my main tip there. Like if you do train in the morning, I highly recommend eating something because your workout will be better, right? You're gonna perform a little bit better. And I also don't think like, again, going into that workout, like why do we wanna do this? Like it's not bad per se to do it fasted, but it'll likely get better results if you actually have something. But again, it's going to be personal depending on a person. What I do, um, I write a lot in the mornings and that's where I do most like content creation, as well as doing some backend stuff for my clients, as well as my coaches. So it's like, I'll do breakfast around maybe nine or 10 and I get up at five. So I'm up for a little while before I eat. Is it called fasting? Yeah. But that's not why I do it. It's just like I've noticed that work better for me. I will say this like I feel a little more. I feel like more clear when it comes to thinking and stuff. I get more deep work done. And I also just like having it a little bit later. I don't know. It works for me. So I'll do coffee and water, not eat for a couple of hours, and then eventually have breakfast. Okay, okay, nice. Okay, let's do lunch, dinner, rest of the day. I love this kind of stuff. Okay. So I'll basically have, let's call it. So I have five meals. So I have breakfast, then I have let's, let's call it lunch pre-workout, post workout, and then dinner, bedtime, whatever you want to call it. So I would say. The lunch and pre-workout meal. It's not always the same stuff, but it's a lot of the same basics. So I'll either do like chicken, which I usually prep in bulk. So on Sundays, I'll try to make a whole bunch of protein and I just have a big container. It's just good to go. So at least for that first half of the week, I have my proteins, right? So I'll do chicken usually because it's just easy. Put whatever spices and that's just ready to go. And then I'll have that with either rice or whole wheat tortillas. And usually I just switch those up or if I'm cutting, like right now, I like to do potatoes as well, gives them more filling. Which by the way, if you're cutting, right? It's a big tip, like boiled potatoes, super filling, definitely recommend that. Which sounds boring, but you can make it taste good. You know what I mean? Then I'll usually do veggies on the side. I really like bell peppers. So usually I just have like a big one, you know, on the side. or just mixed veggies like the frozen ones, you know, just throw in the pack or maybe broccoli or Brussels sprouts in the air fryer. So I'll change those up, but it's still that same framework. And then for like healthy fats, it's usually like olive oil. Or when I put my chicken and bell pepper in a wrap, I'll just do like avocado or something, you know. I'll change that up. Sometimes it will have like leftover ground beef because when we make pasta, I just make the whole pack and then it's basically four portions, you know. Um, that's usually like a leftover dinner, but those will be the biggest ones for my lunches, I would say. Yeah. Or again, if I'm cutting there with just where you have the veggies, you have the carbs, you have the protein, you have the fat. That's like your go-to all the way. When I'm cutting, I'll sometimes do like lean fish, you know, like cod, for example, because it's just, it's like pure protein. It's super simple. Like it's easy to make, you know, then once we get to my post-workout, it kind of depends. Um, when I have a lot in my budget, I mean, as in like my calories, you know, I might do like a sugary cereal with either a scoop of protein. or something like Scare or like College Cheese or something, you know, to where that one is a little bit more like flexible, let's call it, which to listener also, that's a little tip maybe, it's gonna depend on where you're at. Like right now I'm not doing it cause I'm cutting, right? But after your training is a really good moment to replenish and get some carbs in. It's also gonna down regulate cortisol. So that's why I like to go with like the sugar cereal because one, I like it. And two, it's like a quick way to get a lot of carbs in, right? That allows me to get like 80, 90, a hundred carbs in right there and down. Um, and that's usually with cottage cheese or something else for protein. And that's usually it maybe like a Kiwi, which I'll usually do, but it's not very big in terms of like color, you know what I mean? And there's actually no, no added fats there too. because fiber and fat slow down digestion. So that's kind of why. And then my last meal for the day, we change it up. It's usually on Mondays, we always do chicken with rice and then we have naan bread. And then we just pick like those Indian sauces, we just alternate between, or rotate between a couple of different ones. That's like the Monday go-to. And this goes into like creating systems, right? Mondays, it's super busy. I don't even wanna think about it. is okay, that's what we eat. And we still change it up and we legit like really enjoy that meal. So it's like a simple one, you know? And that's how you can simplify nutrition. Like usually like Tuesdays and Wednesdays and or I should say, we maybe do like a pasta. Again, super simple for protein, it's ground beef. I like the 95% lean because again, if that's leaner, we can add healthy fats. So we do the lean ground beef for protein of course, and we have... whole wheat pasta for carbs, then we have extra virgin olive oil for healthy fats and For color it kind of depends. Sometimes we'll throw that in with the sauce Sometimes we'll do like green beans on the side or something, but it changes you see Yeah. And Friday tacos, always. It's a Norwegian tradition, you know? No, but like those two, I feel like also there, like people sometimes overcomplicate it with tracking. It's pretty simple too there, you know what I mean? Like it takes a few times, but it's, what is it? It's a whole wheat wrap. So you can, if you weigh a tortilla once, you know how much it is, you know what I mean? So I know the ones that we get are 60 grams. Like I never weighed them. But that's like when you track and you proactively do it, you don't always have to waste stuff if you know, hey, that brand, that size, okay, 60 grams, boom, there you go. But also there, then we have some veggies, they're all super low in calories, small amounts. Same, ground beef, it's like ground beef in the spices, that's easy. Do you feel sometimes that, I don't know how long you've been tracking for yourself and how you like do that if you do it all the time or no, but do you feel that tracking and always following sort of a scheme can get in the way of your signals regarding appetites when you're hungry, when you're actually full and because I noticed that when I was tracking, I went by the log more than like if I was hungry or not because I had a plan and I I'm perfectly fine with that, but in the transition from logging to not logging, it was a bit harder to like, by my own signals, rather than, you know, counting and logging. I think it's something we have to get used to and learn. For me, I can go to maintenance, stop tracking, it's fine. My weight will be almost the exact same. Because weight I do like to keep track of. But food wise, I'll still stick to the same basics. I'll still have those foods that I usually have. Maintenance is very forgiving, too. I feel like people tend to think they have to hit this one number, and as soon as you're over or under, it's going to mess it up. Like, no, like it's a range of like two, 300 calories. Your body does a really good job at like regulating how much you move. So if you eat a little more, like usually you just move more to a certain extent. If you eat a little less, you'll usually move a little bit less. That's what the body does, right? It actually doesn't want to be losing or gaining weight. It just kind of wants to keep things in a good spot. To your question, for me it's... It's second nature. The tracking is I legit enjoy it. The not tracking and maintenance is also just second nature is like that's just what I do kind of. And it comes with the years, you know. And that's what I want people to know as well, like the tracking stuff. There's a lot of also there. It's like, we're worrying about it. Or even before people try it's like, oh, it's gonna give me an eating disorder. But it's like, not if you don't take it too far. You know, not if you like you, you're proactive about it and you're not reactive, right? You are in charge. You are doing the thing. So if you say, Hey, I'm going to use that and I'm going to just go in and learn from it, use it to control my journey, go back to maintenance. And then also going to make a point of stepping away from tracking, which yeah, like you said, it can sometimes feel uncomfortable a little bit. You know, if I do that and I'm proactive about it. I mean, you'll learn how to do with as well as without. And that's like the ultimate place to be, I feel like, in my opinion. Because if you have a fat loss goal, you have a muscle gain goal, it's about controlling that rate of weight gain or loss. Right? You know exactly when to make changes, you know exactly where you're at. And then after maintenance, we can step away from it. But it is possible to, I don't know what's your experience regarding that, to lose fat or gain muscle without tracking, just going by your signals. Maybe that it's not that common, but I think I heard a podcast once with like a fitness person that was just cutting and bulking, just based on what he felt like and of course what he knew by experience. But it probably won't be that exact. It's possible. I'll say that. It's possible. However, it comes with a lot of awareness. Right? Comes with a lot of awareness, a lot of paying attention, but ignoring your signals. Because if you are in a calorie deficit, you are going to be more hungry. That's literally a sign that it works. However, people tend to be like, oh shit, I'm hungry. I gotta eat. In a category surplus, you're going to feel more full to a point where in a way you got to ignore those signals to a certain extent so that you see that weight gain. And that's why I think that it's almost like a, it's like a, you know, this, this magic thing that people are trying to find, you know, is like, Hey, we're looking for this, this ideal world where we can reach those goals ideally without tracking, without doing all those kinds of things. Is it possible? Again, yes. But relying on our natural cues is not going to do it because we're purposely ignoring those to a certain extent, which again, people might not like hearing that. It's almost like this thing that you're not supposed to say. But that is the case when it comes to stuff that's not maintenance. If it's maintenance, sure. It's just that I think for a lot of people it's going to be very difficult. I'm not going to say it's impossible. You can get really far. Let me say this. You can get really far without tracking if you apply the basics consistently and you just do that for multiple months. So to your question like how to build a meal with out tracking. You have your protein, your carbs, your fats, your color. So maybe like a quarter of your plates 25% would be protein. Just start there, super simple. A quarter of your plate, like that's whatever protein source and you wanna think meat, fish, maybe something like dairy product like skewer, cutlass cheese for example, eggs and egg whites, those kind of things, you know? And if you're plant-based or you just like that stuff, maybe something like tofu or tempeh. Then we go to carbs. Okay, so that should be maybe 25 to 30% of your plate. So again, let's call it just to make it simple, another like quarter or a little bit more. That's carbs. That's gonna be your sardier carbs like rice, potatoes, whole grains, whole grain products, like that kind of stuff. Then we can go to fats, which can be just a little. Basically like a couple like thumb size portions, you know, could be a bit of oil, nuts and seeds, avocado, olives, like those kinds of things. And then the rest, so almost half of your plate could be fruits and or veggies, color, like I said. And with those, like you just pick whatever, like you can't really go wrong. I really think that you can get really far by practicing those basics without tracking, absolutely. Is it gonna help you control your journey like exactly through, right? Going into a calorie deficit controlled for a period of time, where you are gonna be more hungry, right? Or going into a calorie surplus where we're building muscle, we're doing that for a controlled period of time. I mean, again, it is possible. It comes with a lot of awareness and I think in an ideal world that would be doable. But then again, people have lives with stress and stuff and that makes it more difficult. So I do like the tracking because it's instead of kind of guessing where we're at, maybe like, hey, I should kind of be here, but I don't really know. Cause I don't have the numbers to look at. It's the difference between that and just knowing exactly like. You know how fast you're going, what's coming in, where you can make some changes. Because you know as well, like, hey, before you know it, like, you're months in and you're like, oh shit, you know what, like the last couple of weeks, my fiber is kind of dropping or my steps are dropping, you know, or my protein is not as high as it used to be. Okay, cool, now we can dial that back in again. Make sense? Yes, also to track, definitely take the question out of the equation. It makes it a lot easier to know what you're doing and how it affects your journey. And as well, you learn so much from it. And my biggest problem with nutrition is how much people feel and think and how they base their choices, but also their own emotions on what they feel about their lunch and how whole week and they punish themselves by eating a lot less than they need because they had one party at Saturday. So they overestimate how bad the one little party was and by tracking and also of course working together with for example a coach you learn so much more about how these decisions affect you negatively but at the same time positively and also that it like it doesn't have that much to say, I'll say it doesn't matter. One bad choice here and there, it's about the bigger picture. So I also, I like tracking, but I also think we have to be very aware of that it's short term and there should always be a goal of like stepping out of it and not just track, to track, unless you like it of course. Yeah, I think it's one of those where we just want to continuously. And this is the beauty of coaching. I think it's like we're working together. There's like a weekly touch point where, hey, you get to reflect and you can even do this by yourself, right? So this is not even like, Hey, like my coaching is like, yes, I do truly believe in that, right? That's why I continue to invest in coaching. That's why our team does that. And, you know, my coach has a coach and, you know, like I truly believe in that. But it's like, even if you do this by yourself. have moments in your week, or even daily if you want to, or monthly, whatever you want to do, to reflect. Because it's not just about doing a thing, right? Whether it's a workout program, or a meal plan, or whatever it is. You know, like with the weekends, for example, like that's okay, even if we completely overeat or under eat, it's fine if that happens, but it's like, how do you respond, you know? Like what do you do with that information? And that's the whole point I think. And that's why I like those weekly check-ins. That's why we do them. Because it's like, hey, you address your efforts first of all. It's like, hey, I have this goal. I know these things need to happen for me to get to that goal. I said I was going to do these kind of things. Did I do them first of all? You know, did I show up? What went well? Okay, what do we now need to do from this week, you know, upcoming week to be a little bit better? Not perfect, just a little better. Like 1%. And how will you do that? I mean, you know these questions, because that's exactly what I asked you on a weekly basis, you know? And then it's like, how can I help you? It's like, that's the framework you want to follow just every single week. It's like, hey, reflect, just be brutally honest, see how it's going. If you need work with anything, okay, address that. And then you either figure out on your own what that's going to be, or you ask someone. And you get educated, right? And then it doesn't matter how imperfect things are. You just continue to grow and you continue to figure it out. So even there, if you go with just a plate approach that we just addressed, do it and just see how it goes. If you're losing weight and that's your goal, great. You know, if you're not gaining and you're trying to gain, cool. Then at least keep weighing yourself. But like, then make sure that when you eat, you pay attention to your hunger cues and you eat a little bit more. Right? When you're full, you purposely go a little bit over. You see? Again, it's, it's with that awareness. Like you can work with it. It's going to create even more awareness of feel like, cause you're really going to pay attention to it, but it will be a little bit more difficult. I feel like, you see. Definitely. I mean now I feel we learned a lot about how to build the perfect fate. Nothing's perfect but obviously the way you do it is like a smart approach. But before we close things off I want to ask you about one more thing because your Monday dinner, I've seen this on Instagram and it looks really good. I mean rice, naan bread, Indian, you can't go wrong. But I think at the same time a Stuff a lot of people maybe here in Norway think like oh, that's processed ultra post processed shouldn't do that What's your thought about? Yeah about processed versus non processed and the health in those choices I don't think it's gonna matter too much. If the jar of like Indian sauce is the problem, I think we're looking at the wrong thing. You know what I mean? It's just how with, you know, this whole sugar and fruit discussion, it's like, is it really gonna be the fucking apple? You know what I mean? I don't think so. But anyway, to your question, technically, would it be more, you know, whole food based, whatever if I make the sauce myself? Yes, sure. Absolutely. Is it quicker, more convenient, easier? 100%, you know? And that's also one thing, because I do think, hey, like, because my Mondays are kind of crazy. It's just something that works, you know what I mean? It's like, we really enjoy that meal. The sauce, I mean, it's fine. If you look at the ingredients, I guess it's fine. You know what I mean? But it's that convenience too, that counts. You know what I mean? Could I spend more time in the kitchen? Yeah, sure. But that day in a week, I don't want to. Also knowing that most other meals, they're fully like whole food based, you know what I mean? Pretty much. Or at least minimally processed. And that's also kind of going back to that 80-20 principle of flexible dieting. It's like, it doesn't have to be perfect all the time. And I don't think the, yeah, the Indian sauce is going to be the thing. You know what I mean? And... I don't... something is not inherently bad because it's processed. And that's one thing people need to understand. I think it's good to get your take on it because I feel like a lot of people are really thinking about that now and of course that's great but it also makes life a lot harder when you have a busy schedule, you have kids. all that stuff and if you're to like rule out all that's processed you're making your life really hard and I don't think you have to make it that hard it's not that bad for you as long as you like have it in moderation like you describe now Yeah. And you know what, even then, there's also room for more flexible foods that are more processed than the Indian sauce, you know what I mean? And that would also still be fine. It's yeah, no, but it's like all joking aside, like that is true. You know what I mean? Like that's also why I purposely brought up the fruit loops, like the cereal. Is it objectively like the most healthy food out there? Like, no, but it's also like a very small percentage of the all the food that I eat, which is like mainly whole foods, you know what I mean? So it's that it's a context and you don't eat one single food. Like that is not your diet. You know, it's like, hey, what's the whole picture? Like show me that if it's mostly, you know, processed foods. Absolutely. That's not a healthy diet. But if there's a little bit in there, which also allows you to be more flexible and just In my opinion, like it makes it more sustainable because you're not restricting yourself so much. You're actually allowing something that most people would be, you know, labeling bad foods. But we're here just being grown-ups and we just say, hey, you know what? I'm not going to have too much of it and it's fine, you know, like if we have that mindset, I think that's still going to be healthier. Then everything needs to be clean organic all the time. You know what I mean? Yeah, definitely. And of course, both you and I work with highly active people and I feel that a lot of my clients could do with some more calories as you learned. I learned that from you. You reminded me that your diet could easily fit in some processed food, maybe also because you need it. It's like limits to how much chicken and avocado and rice you can eat. A lot of people maybe need that extra fuel because we're training a lot and you know, the body is building so we need it. Yeah. Let me make one more side note here, because I do want to point out that I always recommend focusing on the whole foods, right? Always. I always recommend like, that's your priority. I'm not here to say like, hey, that, you know, squeezing into Froot Loops, whatever it is, like, that's your priority. Like, no, okay, if you want to have some of that, that's cool. But like, focus on those whole foods, like, that's what we're adding, you know, the minimally processed foods. And you know what, like, That whole process versus, you know, minimally processed or whole foods thing like. Whole grain tortillas, right? It's a little bit more processed. It's still fine, you know what I mean? It's just maybe less filling than boiled potatoes. Okay, now we have two different tools that we can use. You see? So I think the processed food debate is like, it's definitely taking a little too far, I feel like. It's a lot of fear mongering. But I will say this as well, obviously, because I wanted this to be very clear. Like you should be focusing on minimally processed foods. Yeah. and whole foods. And I think if you have mostly those foods that are very few ingredients or maybe even single ingredient foods, it's very difficult to not create good results in the gym. grid. Agreed. Alrighty. Let's wrap it up. Thanks for joining again. Yeah, good talk. Sorry for me asking all the questions, but you know, that's natural. I'm here to learn about nutrition and you're the king of nutrition. So that's why we do it that way. But thank you so much. I hope really that's the people listening. Of course you are listeners, but also some of my clients that they're learning and getting inspired to. Yeah, take control over their nutrition for the last time, not following any sort of diet or thing for like four weeks, but really thinking about this stuff long term so that they can build the health and the habits and also the body that they want to and have for the rest of their lives, not just until summer. Absolutely. So that being said, like remember that reflection stuff and just continue to work on it and you will get there. So Pia for the new listeners, where can people find you? They can find me on Instagram, it's probably the easiest place, Pia Seberg, or they can check out my website, PiaSeberg.no. Just send me a DM if you have questions. Awesome. I'll link that in the show notes to a listener. Thanks again. Feel free to drop us a quick five star rating on Spotify or Apple or both. Do whatever you want to do, and then we'll talk to you very soon. All righty.